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Author Topic: In an iTunes age, do we need the record store?
Jesse Skeen
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From: Sacramento, CA
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 - posted 11-27-2011 07:20 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The main thing that killed CD sales was the ever-rising prices. When I started buying CDs in 1985, The Wherehouse stores had ALL their CDs priced at $11.99. A few years later, they started pricing everything at list price, and then list prices started going up. Most current albums are list-priced at $18.99, which is absolutely ridiculous. The first years CDs were out, record companies even said that prices would go DOWN when discs became cheaper to manufacture, but instead they went up. Prices on home video on the other hand have been going down. Many times I've looked up the soundtrack of a movie I recently bought on DVD or Blu-Ray only to find that it would cost me MORE than what I paid for the actual movie!

Another big problem is that a lot of current music is mixed with the dynamic range all messed up- it's called the "loudness war" and everything is mixed to sound as loud as possible. What's funny is I've seen examples of current albums where the LP will be mixed correctly, but the CD will have the crappy mix, and recording the LP to CD will produce a better-sounding disc than the retail CD.

Record companies have been digging their own grave for a long time, and I hate to see record stores die before they do. I've suggested many time that if the "kids" are going to illegally download stuff for free, they need to start catering to the people who really CARE about sound quality- meaning those who actually sit down and listen to entire albums on a BIG sound system, not those who think earbuds are good enough. They seem to be doing that with LPs, but CDs really are the better format when they're done right. Super Audio CDs are great too, but there really hasn't been a lot of great material released on that format.

Most of today's popular music is crap, too. I have an open mind about music, but so many current 'rock' songs I've heard on the radio sound the same, and R&B sounds cheap compared to the older stuff- crappy drum machines instead of full orchestrations. Rap is just a joke- it just amounts to someone taking an old recording, cutting it up and talking over it and calling that a new 'song'. I've heard SOME new music that I really liked, but it doesn't seem to get played on the radio very much. (The current state of radio sure isn't helping music sales either, neither is MTV's abandonment of music.) Pet Shop Boys still do great stuff, but everything they've put out over the past 20 years has gotten ZERO airplay. I bought their "Nightlife" album a couple years after it was issued, not having heard anything off of it, and after playing it for the first time I asked "How the hell weren't some of these songs all over the radio? This should have been HUGE!"

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 11-27-2011 08:11 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well maybe you guys who think most of today's music is crap should ask the people it's aimed at....the teens and 20s. The music industry doesn't give two shits about what a bunch of old people who don't BUY new music think of today's pop artists.

One reason old artists don't get much airplay -- even when they release great music -- is becauuse they don't have marketing money behind them like they used to, and also because when an artist is OLD their coolness factor is zero, hence they don't get new listeners, hence ad sales don't happen, etc.

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Monte L Fullmer
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 - posted 11-27-2011 08:19 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True, Mike - seems that movies these days are aimed at the same generation.

Why we think these movies today are so retarded and this targeted generation think they are great.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

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From: El Paso, TX
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 - posted 11-27-2011 08:21 PM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
One reason old artists don't get much airplay -- even when they release great music -- is becauuse they don't have marketing money behind them like they used to, and also because when an artist is OLD their coolness factor is zero, hence they don't get new listeners, hence ad sales don't happen, etc.
Also, sometimes they are no longer relevant or any good. I can't remember the last time I heard Lef Leppard's latest stuff, or even Bruce Springsteen recent music for that matter.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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 - posted 11-27-2011 09:52 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The funny thing is that when we're old, the kids today will think the new music of the time is crap (if freedom of thought isn't illegal by then) and will get on the MeshNet and post things like "Damn kids don't appreciate REAL music like Dubstep, Nickleback and Justin Beiber. Remember those days when music was so great?" It's what they grew up with. They don't know any better. Just like really REALLY old people don't like Boston, Led Zepplin and crap like that because it didn't sound like an accordion or whatever the hell kind of music they listened to back in the 20's. It's just as bad as dubstep sounds to us. But some of you old folks grew up with that ancient stuff and you liked it because you didn't know any better. My generation grew up with old farts like Michael Jackson, AC/DC and of course the ever-so-popular "Lef Leppard".

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Tom Petrov
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 - posted 11-27-2011 10:23 PM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
meaning those who actually sit down and listen to entire albums on a BIG sound system,
I don't think that is a factor at all.

People have been listening to music on those little earbuds since way back in the late 70s when the Walkman came to market.

Music has been on the radio airwaves for how many years?

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James Westbrook
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 - posted 11-27-2011 11:15 PM      Profile for James Westbrook   Email James Westbrook   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recall a few years ago ABC Radio networks changed the format of their satellite to radio station service "Stardust" to some adult contemporary classics which emphasized the 70s and 80s light rock because the audience who was listening to the likes of Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin were dying off. Literally.
Oldies formatted stations now call themselves "Classic Hits" and concentrate on 70s and 80s hits, bypassing the 50s and 60s because their target audience are the younger ones who grew up in the 80s. The formatted "Classic Hits" station in Lubbock won the ratings book last year. KLUV in Dallas won the Metroplex book at the same time.
I sense that in 20 years, "Classic Rock" or whatever it is called then will have the artists most of us do not care to listen to now, that Led Zepplin will be considered "too old" and the real rock and rollers of our generation will not be programmed because "the old farts are dying off and not spending money." Assuming there is any terrestrial radio left.
I just wish the Classic Rock formatted station in Lubbock would play more than the 200 or less songs that I keep hearing over and over again. I might be overestimating their library.
Their version of Steve Miller's Jet Airliner has the "funky sheet going down in the city" edit.
Rant over.

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 11-27-2011 11:27 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tom Petrov
sometimes they are no longer relevant or any good
Well something being good or not has almost nothing to do with sales.

I haven't heard anything by "Lef Leppard" lately either (ever, actually) but for you '70s-music fans, new albums by the Doobie Brothers, the Cars, and even Glen Campbell were all released in the past few months and were all very good (especially the Cars one).

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Jesse Skeen
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 - posted 11-28-2011 02:46 AM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A BIG problem I have with radio nowadays is so many stations focusing only on older music- it's funny how radio tends to cater to the 'older' people when the record industry wants younger people to buy their stuff. Stations that only play oldies are a waste of airspace- you could conceivably buy every song that they're ever going to play, and have no need for that station anymore. I have Steve Miller's Greatest Hits CD (and 8-track too!) so I don't need to hear any of those songs more than once every few months on the radio, while tons of new music doesn't get played at all. We have a "classic rock" station that's been around more than 20 years now- funny thing was that when it started I said it didn't deserve to live more than a few months. The attitude at these stations is "Anything made in the current decade couldn't possibly be any good, so we're not going to play it." I've noticed they've added some 80s stuff now like U2, which they wouldn't have played before, and anyone listening exclusively to that station wouldn't have heard of.

Another big problem I've had with radio is that most stations only play songs released as a single- so when a new album comes out they'll just play ONE song off it over and over, then a few weeks later maybe play one other song off it. (I'm not sure how they do this now since 45s and CD singles are extinct.) Radio SHOULD be something where you hear stuff that is new and interesting (and like so much that you go buy the album.) I do most of my radio-listening passively in the car, there should be something compelling enough to make me want to tune in on my main sound system in the living room, sit down and actually LISTEN to it for hours on end. (The non-profit station KDVS at UC Davis comes close, though they often get weird just for weirdness' sake. I had a show on there briefly back in 1991 and was discouraged from playing anything that was on a major label at all, even if it was something that didn't get played on other radio stations.)

And a lot of current music IS crap, no matter how old you are. I didn't like rap even when I was younger, and I didn't like a lot of stuff that was popular at the time. I'd still rather listen to Journey than Eminem right now- their songs were cheesy, but at least they were SONGS.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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 - posted 11-28-2011 03:27 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've heard Eminem a few times. Dude sounds like a mouse. I find that hilarious because he's cussing and trying to act all tough.

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Kurt Zupin
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 - posted 11-28-2011 05:49 AM      Profile for Kurt Zupin   Email Kurt Zupin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Robert E. Allen
Gee, could that be because the older artists were actually making MUSIC as opposed to the noise that's being described as music today.

Many others have already called out how ignorant this remark by you is Robert but this has been your fall back for anything that isn't like it was "back in the day" We understand you don't like movies today, and you don't like TV today and music and what not and everyone should look threw rose colored glasses at the 50's.

Being someone who's in his late 20's I was raised on everything from Bing Crosby, Hank Williams to AC/DC and Garth Brooks. You'll find that any person who truly loves music loves all generations and can find great stuff from artists from every ERA.

Bruce Springsteen is still packing sold out arenas when he tours and his last studio album "Working on a Dream" is one of his best. There's a reason bands like the Stones and guys like ZZ Top can still tour, people want to see them and they enjoy their music. They might not sound like they did in their prime but you still love the hits. Listen to John Fogerty's live album he did a few years ago called "The Long Road Home in Concert" He doesn't sound like he did when he was with CCR but its still great stuff.

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Mark J. Marshall
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 - posted 11-28-2011 06:49 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are people still recording rap music? Every time I hear it blaring from a car it's always the same song. It must be a really good one because everyone has been playing it around here for about the last five years.

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Damien Taylor
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 - posted 11-28-2011 07:17 AM      Profile for Damien Taylor   Email Damien Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Down in Australia, the term record exclusively refers to a phonograph disc. I would be very sad if the few remaining record stores here were to close. Although they all seem to do good business. I always see people in there and I spend heaps there myself.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

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 - posted 11-28-2011 07:48 AM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
I haven't heard anything by "Lef Leppard" lately either (ever, actually)
Well they have released stuff in 2002, 2006, 2008 and just 2011. The latest is available only at Walmart if I remember...

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Leo Enticknap
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 - posted 11-28-2011 08:17 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L. Fullmer
..and I still have some shellac '78's in as well as a ton of vinyl... I miss buying open reel, prerecorded tapes also.
+1 on shellac and vinyl, though I've never owned or listened to pre-recorded 1/4 inch tapes.

As someone who listens mainly to classical and jazz, audio quality is obviously a major issue, but there's something subjective about it. I have bought a few CD reissues of the early stereo LPs I really enjoy (e.g. Van Cliburn paying Brahms's piano concerto #2, RCA LSC-2581; Bernstein conducting Nielsen's symphony #3 in 1965, Columbia MS 6769; John Coletrain's Blue Train or Oscar Peterson's Very Tall), but the main problem is that the noise reduction applied to remove the original tape hiss is so aggressive that it takes away most of the high frequency detail in the music. Also, that tape hiss is part of the sonic experience of the original LPs, and, weird as this sounds, I miss it when I don't hear it!

However, I think that's more a problem with the way these albums have been remastered for digital presentation rather than the digital medium itself. I have a few CD transfers I've made myself of albums that were bought used and are a bit dirty and scratched (and therefore I don't want to risk stylus damage from repeated plays), and I don't have the same problem listening to them as I do with commercial reissues of albums from that period.

On the subject of vinyl, I recently had an email from Amazon announcing the launch of their "vinyl store". The range of stuff on offer is impressive - most of the boutique labels currently pressing new vinyl seem to be represented, with similar prices to those you'd find in specialist shops. I hope that isn't another nail in the coffin of the specialist shops.

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