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Author
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Topic: In an iTunes age, do we need the record store?
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-02-2011 10:52 AM
There's little if any reason why "audiophile" quality music would have to cost much more, if anymore at all, than standard music releases. This is especially true when you consider the cost of a bare bones Red Book CD format disc in music stores, often between $18 and $20. I have a hard time trying to stomach that kind of cost for a plain CD, but might be willing to pay $20 for a Blu-ray audio disc.
Modern music recording hardware and "DAW" software has enormous capabilities. Hardware and software costs have come down significantly. Lots of musicians have their own home recording studios since the technology is so much more accessible. I can do a hell of a lot with audio just using Adobe Audition, including editing 24/96 or 24/192 resolution tracks and mixing them for stereo or 5.1.
It shouldn't be very difficult at all for any popular music group to make a high resolution version of a new album. Much of that material is originally recorded in a high resolution state and then compressed and reduced down for music CD and then further compressed for the iTunes crowd.
The listener still needs to have a pretty decent stereo system. However it doesn't take bleeding edge high end speakers and amplifiers to expose the difference between lossy compressed and lossless compressed music. It's easy enough to tell the difference on more affordable "mid fi" gear. With high resolution audio playback high quality amps and speakers will pay off with respects to showing off the most subtle differences and being better able to handle the increased dynamic range.
Like Joe said, I'm not convinced either that Apple, Amazon or whoever would find it difficult or impossible to offer lossless compressed real CD quality songs or even provide high res quality versions. YouTube, Vimeo and other sites are letting people upload 1080p HD video to their servers. HD video consumes quite a bit more space than CD quality audio or even 24/96 lossless audio for that matter.
The refusal of online music providers to offer lossless versions of songs is definitely not a technical matter. The reasons lie elsewhere. Music piracy paranoia is the most likely culprit.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-02-2011 12:11 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
a bare bones Red Book CD format disc in music stores, often between $18 and $20.
I sure wish you would quit beating that dead horse. I've said it before and it bears repeating: Nobody ever needs to pay $18 to $20 for a plain old CD. Sure, if you shop in the mall stores you'll pay list price, but $11.50 to $15.49 is far more the norm in stores, and if you buy online and/or don't mind waiting for used copies, you can pretty much name your own price. So nobody should be griping about the cost of CDs any more.
As to the lack of "audiophile" versions of downloads, the problem is very simple: Not enough of an audience. The reason is, back in the earlier days of hi-fidelity home stereo equipment, the difference between a $99 Woolworth's "phonograph" and a $1500 "sound system" was huge! You could hear it even if you were a deaf old lady.
These days, even with the "lossy compressed formats," the crappy compressed files still sound very good in comparison. Couple that with the fact that MOST people (the vast majority, that is) do NOT have golden ears; they listen in the background, or on cheap earbuds, or in cars with highway noise, etc etc. Then add in the bum economy, the increased other entertainment options (games and so forth) and it's easy to see why people don't want to drop a bundle on a high-end sound system.
Not everyone is like "us film-techers." It used to be that the majority of music customers wanted a nice stereo system in their house and car. Nowadays those customers are in the minority.
With most people, as long as they have a big enough TV screen and can hear the sound, they're happy. It's pretty easy to see why there isn't much of a market for "audiophile anything" these days.
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Connor Wilson
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 190
From: Sterling, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 12-02-2011 03:27 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
The online music vendors HAVE NEVER TRIED selling lossless or high resolution music to download.
Wrong. There is one that I know of. It is called HDtracks. They sell all sorts of lossless downloads there, all up to 24/192 flac (depending on the product). You can register for free and get a free sampler in 24/96 flac. It's damn awesome, but I have yet to actually purchase from there.
Oh, and because we are in the iTunes age, I think the record store is more important than ever. There's nothing like opening up a CD or vinyl from their shrink wraps, placing the disc into your player, and playing it. Furthermore, there's nothing like reading CD booklets or staring into that twelve-inch album art while listening to a vinyl, with all the gatefolds and sleeves containing liner notes, lyrics, and more artwork. Oh, and it's not just the physical aspect of it. CDs' and vinyls' sound indefinitely better than their compressed MP3 or AAC counterparts being sold by Amazon and Apple, the stakes being raised much, much higher when directly comparing digital downloads to a vinyl record (but that's another story).
What does the iTunes store offer you at most when buying an album? iTunes LP, hmm. Looks like a DVD menu with lyrics, liner notes and artwork. It might be a novelty to own a digital 12" gatefold with flashing letters and 5-frames-per-second animations, but that does not compensate for the compressed AAC 256kbps files iTunes gives you. I've heard stories that iTunes might offer higher-resolution downloads in the future, but why would I pay $10 for a compressed album when I can buy an uncompressed album for the same price by lifting my @$$ off and going to the store? Granted, most of the time CDs' ARE more expensive than downloads, but the extra two dollars can't hurt even in this economy and are well worth it if you have a dedicated sound system.
Despite my rantings, I use iTunes and Songbird as my music managers. The former for universality, and the latter for higher fidelity. I rip most of my CDs' in Apple Lossless and while they sound great, they lose some detail from the actual CD.
I am a budding audiophile. In the barriers of my limitations, I seek for the best sonic experience I can afford. This ends my two cents on the subject.
P.S., Support your local record shop if you have one! Visit this site for help:
Record Store Day
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Keith Paynter
Film Handler
Posts: 7
From: Regina, SK, Canada
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 12-02-2011 04:11 PM
As a live audio tech, there are a handful of CD's that I use uncompressed for critical PA equalization setup (I don't use white/pink noise generators - I trust my knowledge of the album and what it should sound like, even under impractical room conditions, and I have yet to encounter someone who tells me my mixing sounds like 'poop').
When the selection in local B&M stores (and actual B&M stores for that matter) became more and more sparse, I pretty much relied on Amazon for additions to my music collection. I bought an iPad2 this summer, primarily for apps that could remote control my console, or provide inexpensive (but reliable) SPL software, but I've been cataloguing my regular CD's to iTunes 320Kb, and investing in a handful of iTunes back-catalogue albums that I've never been able to get on CD.
I think iTunes (and digital media players in general) is a convenience...one that affects the online sales of physical media, as well as the B&M model. Not since the days of the homemade "mix tape" have we been given an opportunity to carry around a diverse library of our favorite tunes in such a small package. I encounter more and more techs who are carrying iPads as their weapon of choice for setups, break music and band lead-ins, and I use a laptop in place of a CD player when such physical media is required. When songs are mastered well and converted effectively, the general public doesn't have a clue and won't know the difference. On the other hand, audiophiles like us can recognize a crap rip a mile away.
Consider it a step in the evolution (or for fans of Mark Mothersbaugh, "de-evolution") of music. The medium is the message, indeed. Thanks for that, Marshall McLuhan.
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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover
Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 12-02-2011 09:18 PM
quote: Keith Paynter
I think iTunes (and digital media players in general) is a convenience...one that affects the online sales of physical media, as well as the B&M model. Not since the days of the homemade "mix tape" have we been given an opportunity to carry around a diverse library of our favorite tunes in such a small package. I encounter more and more techs who are carrying iPads as their weapon of choice for setups, break music and band lead-ins, and I use a laptop in place of a CD player when such physical media is required. When songs are mastered well and converted effectively, the general public doesn't have a clue and won't know the difference. On the other hand, audiophiles like us can recognize a crap rip a mile away.
You make a really great point here. Its the convenience and the ease of use that make it so easy.
I think an important that nobody has mentioned is that with iTunes or other online sites, you are not forced to purchase the entire album, you can get your favorite song and move on to the next artist.
quote: Connor Wilson
There's nothing like opening up a CD or vinyl from their shrink wraps, placing the disc into your player, and playing it. Furthermore, there's nothing like reading CD booklets or staring into that twelve-inch album art while listening to a vinyl, with all the gatefolds and sleeves containing liner notes, lyrics, and more artwork.
A little bit of a cliche here and a bit of truth.
On the other hand, its nice to take your little iPod or Mp3 player with you where ever you go....no need to change cds, carry them or fumble with a portable cd player.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-03-2011 11:42 AM
quote: Connor Wilson
There is one that I know of. It is called HDtracks.
Thanks for letting me know about that site, Connor. I'll have to look into it further to see what exactly they sell, as compared to what's offered by iTunes and Amazon.
quote: Connor Wilson
There's nothing like opening up a CD or vinyl from their shrink wraps, placing the disc into your player, and playing it. Furthermore, there's nothing like reading CD booklets or staring into that twelve-inch album art while listening to a vinyl, with all the gatefolds and sleeves containing liner notes, lyrics, and more artwork.
I've rarely ever been impressed with the artwork included in a CD release. One notable exception is the 10,000 Days CD from Tool (it featured a fold-out booklet featuring 3D photo-illustrations and attached 3D glasses). The 12" vinyl LP format allows for detailed cover illustrations, lyrics printed on the vinyl sleeve and even posters or other goodies included with the platter.
Nevertheless, you don't get all those kinds of goodies with any digital download.
quote: Keith Paynter
I encounter more and more techs who are carrying iPads as their weapon of choice for setups, break music and band lead-ins, and I use a laptop in place of a CD player when such physical media is required.
With the capacity boasted by external hard disc drives, there's little reason for anyone to have to shuffle music CDs. A pocket sized, bus powered 500GB external hard disc drive can store more than 700 music CDs in full Linear PCM .WAV format.
The iPad has some serious limitations as opposed to using a notebook computer. But you can overcome that by using hard discs as network attached storage.
quote: Greg Anderson
Um, riiiiiiiiight. Kind of like saying Bob Dylan would have sold more albums in 1975 if not for the tyranny of the Captain and Tennille.
Um, Greg, your insulting analogy doesn't make one damned bit of sense. Tone your anger down a notch or two so you can come up with a better metaphor.
quote: Greg Anderson
iTunes is for the mass market and it has raised the quality standard for the vast majority of consumers.
Wrong. It has NOT. The only thing iTunes has done is raised the standard of convenience. And they've done so by wrapping it in fashionable Apple-branded packaging.
quote: Greg Anderson
Imagine the disaster it would have been to start selling lossless files back when the iTunes store began and most people were using dial-up Internet service in their homes. Imagine how pathetic the song capacity of an iPod Nano would seem if it were loaded with uncompressed 96k/24bit music.
Greg, did anyone here ever say iTunes should have started selling lossless CD quality music from the start? No. The rumor mill about iTunes offering lossless music (just CD quality, not high res 24/96 stuff) began buzzing just a few years ago.
BTW, most people have not been using dial-up Internet connections for quite some time. I had a DSL connection and was able to download LPCM .WAV files without much problem at all before the iTunes store was ever established. Here near the end of 2011 DSL technology is a very old, dying connection standard. Many neighborhoods, even mine here in bumblefuck Lawton, Oklahoma, are getting connected with fiber optic cable. That's making the whole notion of needing everything lossy compressed more and more irrelevant every day.
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