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Author Topic: Cyan Tracks David Ingalsbe Film Handler Posts: 31 From: Eagan, MN, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 06-21-2004 02:47 AM                     Brad, my apologies for posting in the wrong place. Gordon, My issue is not with the actual cyan conversion but with how they are doing it. It feels like the boy who cried wolf quote: MGM chose to use the random dual inventory on "Soul Plane" so they could have some silver+dye track prints for overseas. <start rant> The studios are deciding to convert to cyan tracks for the enviorment but every time a studio decides to convert they end up backing down. It's like they do plan to do it but before they release the print they fell like it will lose them money. cars have been going though this as well. Gas bad, need alturnitive, but there is no alt. fuel inferstructure so we can't make alt fuel cars. They need to stop farting around and pick one; both cars and sound tracks. <end rant> I don't know maybe I am sick of the notes from studios on this that don't happen. or maybe I need to relax a little.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-21-2004 09:29 AM                     More Rome wasn't built in a day and conversion doesn't happen overnight  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-21-2004 02:01 PM                        True - but neither was it dragged out over almost a decade (and still counting). Two other examples - the conversion to sound, from the first screenings of The Jazz Singer to the last major Hollywood silent feature being produced, took a little under three years. The nitrate to safety conversion was even quicker - Kodak first marketed triacetate in October 1948 and ceased manufacturing nitrate in February 1950.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-21-2004 02:06 PM                        I wonder, since today there are still cinemas which show movies in all sorts of wrong ways - cropped aspect ratios, mono sound etc - if there was a time when cinemas showed sound movies without sound. Maybe they could get away with it for a while since the audience wasn`t used to sound.  |  IP: Logged Ted Costas Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Hollywood, CA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 06-21-2004 02:26 PM                     How long did it take to build Rome? We may need that info for the D-Cinema roll-out model. Brad asked about trailers in Cyan. I think the answer is not based on the theory that advertising is more important than the product for sale... For instance, on "Soul Plane", New Line had a trailer that went out with that movie that was a cyan trailer. New Line still has yet to delacare their intentions regarding the switch to cyan, but if their trailer is on a feature that has cyan tracks, they have elected to also release the trailer with cyan tracks. Most studios feel the same way. If the feature is has silver-applicated analog tracks, so will the trailers... and so far the same goes for cyan. I don't think you will ever see cyan trailers on a silver-applicated feature. Remember, the studios, like the exhibitors, want to release films successfully, with the least amount of variables possible. To date, the release patterns for cyan analog tracks by DreamWorks, MGM, and soon, Disney, will be logical and based on the red-light reader penetration in the markets and territories that the film will play in. If we wanted this effort to fail, then we'd release cyan trailers on silver-applicated features, to see what would happen... I know what would happen. But causing headaches is not part of the implementation plan... a smooth transition is. Regarding "crying wolf", if the wolf shows up, we're cool, right? Well, if you play MGM or Disney films, you will get plenty of chances to see the wolf, the cyan wolf, before the end of the year. And with that, I have run out of witty one-liners. Yours, Ted  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 06-21-2004 07:33 PM                    I don't think anyone was suggesting including cyan trailers with silver prints. I think the idea was to ship some independent trailers with cyan tracks so that people could assure themselves that everything is ready to go for cyan. They wouldn't necessarily have to be for a cyan release although that would, of course, make a great deal of sense. Since there are, as yet, apparently no generally available test films in cyan a trailer would serve to demonstrate cyan playback. It would also serve your aim of encouraging conversion by putting the fear of God...I mean cyan...on those who have not converted. There is no better proof of the incompatibility of cyan with white light than trying to play it and better to have awful or inaudible sound for 3 minutes than 2 hours. There would be an explanatory note or sticker with the trailer. With your picture, Ted.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-21-2004 07:37 PM                     I think Ted could be a special new LAD boy --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-21-2004 10:46 PM                     I don't see any reason for providing a theatre with a cyan test of any form if you have a red reader it will play if you don't well hmmmmmmm  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 06-22-2004 11:42 AM                        If you have a red reader, the cyan dye tracks will play as well as a conventional dye+silver analog track. If you have a "white light" tungsten reader, you will have low signal level (about -11dB) and a noisy playback when you increase the gain to compensate. Performance of cyan dye tracks has been exactly as predicted by the SMPTE papers.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 06-22-2004 01:01 PM                    The levels will match because they are made to match, not because of some inherent equality in all of this. Which is to say that there is the possibility they might not. Therefore a tone loop in cyan would be nice to have. Also to see if it declines in level over time with fading.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-22-2004 01:56 PM                        Steve makes a good point--how often does one need to re-set Dolby levels with the LED readers? The usual rule with white-light readers (at least as I understood it) is once every month or so plus whenever the exciter lamp is replaced. Does the once-per-month guideline still apply?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-22-2004 04:31 PM                     With white light readers...the stability was a function of the lamp, the cell and the power supply. In the day of un-regulated power supplies for exciter lamps...if you measured Dolby-Tone at different parts of the day you would get different levels. Another thing with solar cells is cell fatigue...if you let the exciter lamp burn with no film loaded...the cell will fatigue and the level will be lower than if you leave the exciter lamps off when not in use...as I recall it took several minutes to fatigue and about as long to recover...it has been a while since I did any experiments on this. As to IR LED...they have shown to be stable with respect to Dolby-Level over years of use. With visible red LED...the light stability is all over the place. Typically, in the first 1000 hours of use you will find the LED intensity will diminish at its fastest rate...how much current you are feeding it seems to set the speed. After that point it seems to settle down a bit. I have also had visible red LEDs that seemed rather consistant for 1000s of hours and then just dropped like a rock (I call them marathon LEDs...and you never know when you are going to get one of them). The freakiest one of them all are the ones that actually GAIN intensity over time...speaking with Tom Moore of Kelmar a few years ago...I'm not the only one to witness this one. In fact, I just came across one. So as to how often to check level...when ever you think about it. At least once per month is a good idea but don't be surprised if on a week-to-week basis nothing changes or if you have radical changes. There is no rhyme or reason to it and I'm sure you will find that different systems have different stabilities based on how much current is used to light the LED and how well it is heat sinked and such. Then again, getting Dolby-Tone film that stable from one batch to the next is also a factor to consider. Steve  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-22-2004 08:56 PM                     "The levels will match because they are made to match, not because of some inherent equality in all of this. Which is to say that there is the possibility they might not. Therefore a tone loop in cyan would be nice to have. Also to see if it declines in level over time with fading."Steve they will match by the same leap of faith that regular soundtracks match or maybe they should do what I propossed on mag stuff tones recorded on the head and noise on the tails  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-23-2004 12:01 AM                     So far I haven't been able to convince the hmfic of the need to convert. He claims that cyan incompatability with our exciter lamps is B.S. Does anybody have enough of a cyan track for me to use to show him? A few feet to make a loop. E mail me if you do. Thanks Bill  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-23-2004 06:46 AM                        He's a doofus! Just get him on the phone or email with John Pytlak! quote: John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Customer Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A Eastman Kodak Company Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243 e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion Use the big hammer!  |  IP: Logged

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