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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-13-2007 11:37 PM

I hear that the Playstation 3 is the BEST BluRay player EVER.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-14-2007 07:36 AM

The playstation 3 is the ONLY reason they have sold ANY Blew Ray players at all.

Mark

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2007 07:55 AM

The projector I am using is the Panasonic PT-AX100U and it will do 1080p. With the Component cables I am now using, I can play Blu-rays at 720p or 1080i. All standard DVD's play at 480p.

With the HDMI cable, I can play Blu-ray at 1080p at 24 and 60 frames. I can also play SDDVD's upconverted to 1080p.

Last night I switched back and forth from 720p and 1080i. The 1080i is sharper but not really film like. The image looks a little harsh and flat. The 720p although not as sharp, seems to be more film like.

I am using a standard Sony 800 watt 5.1 sound system you can buy at Best Buy for $199 with $10 off. I pick it up at Sears as a floor model for $120. All my money is really in the projector. The screen size is 3 ft high, slightly curved and what ever distance wide I need via black curtains. The Blu-ray of "The Patriot" is 3ft wide and 1 inch less then 7.5 ft long for a 2.55 old Fox CinemaScope image. The Blu Ray is truly wider then the SDDVD and not just because they cropped the top and bottom in the scan. I actually have more image on both sides compared with the SD-DVD. The image is very bright in a totally dark room.

Some Tech guy said the reason HD-DVD players do not have a coaxial system for the sound connection is because the HD-DVD sound data is different and will not work on a coaxial line. It needs an optical line. So the elimination of the Coaxail connection was not to save a few dimes but rather for good technical reasons. So a conversion is not possible. At least that is what he says. I would need a 12ft optical cable to use HD-DVD.

[ 12-14-2007, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 12-14-2007 09:18 AM

Decription of HD / B-Ray audio options

I ran across this today . . . . . it basically says that the newer sound formats like Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD, etc cannot run over S/PDIF due to bandwidth issues - in other words neither HD or B-Ray can use coax for the newer sound formats . . . sounds like HD-DVD (or Toshiba) chose to only do the one format that covers them all.

From the list it looks like the only thing B-Ray can do that HD can't is 5.1 PCM.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2007 09:55 AM

I do have the 1400 set for Dolby Digital vs 5.1 PCM and it is working. So I believe my Sony 5.1 setup is taking Dolby Digital through the coaxial cable. The instructions say if I set it to Dolby Digital and the Sound system is not designed for it, I will not get any sound.

If I do want to use optical cable, I will need to bring the the amp and controls inside the booth or take the DVD player outside the booth near the sound system. Then I will have to run a 12 ft HDMI cable to the projector.

This is in fact maybe what I might end up doing.

Then one of the free Blu-ray movies with the 1400 player is Planet Earth. Wal-Mart is selling that disc for $64.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-14-2007 10:09 AM

Standard optical or coaxial digital connections cannot support the larger bit streams of LPCM 5.1, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS-HD. You must use HDMI connections for digital pass through of those high bandwidth audio formats or have a player which can internally decode the audio and output it in analog form.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2007 10:33 AM

I have an option of setting the sound on the Blu ray player at Dolby Digital and it says in the user book that if I set the field to Dolby Digital and I get no sound, my system is not designed to play Dolby Digital. Well I get sound and on the amp and it's clearly highlighted as Input=Dolby Digital.

I am sure my one year old Sony 5.1 amp is not designed to do Dolby Digital Plus or anything else like that.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 12-14-2007 10:51 AM

quote: Larry Myers
Some Tech guy said the reason HD-DVD players do not have a coaxial system for the sound connection is because the HD-DVD sound data is different and will not work on a coaxial line. It needs an optical line. So the elimination of the Coaxail connection was not to save a few dimes but rather for good technical reasons. So a conversion is not possible. At least that is what he says. I would need a 12ft optical cable to use HD-DVD.

The tech guy might have meant well but he is wrong. There is nothing that the Toslink (optical) cable can do that the coax can't. They are THE SAME SIGNAL. So conversion is quite simple if that is the route you want to go.

What the misinformed tech guy meant to say is that if you want the higher-end sound formats (lossless/higher bit rate...etc), you will need to use HDMI (typically with 1.3 or better revision) for those discs so equipped. Basically, the S/PDIF format is a 2-channel PCM format and is the consumer version of the AES/EBU format used in professional applications. It can carry the same amount of information that can fit on two PCM tracks. Thus, standard Dolby AC-3 or DTS with their lossy compression schemes can be made to fit on that space. But the newer discrete 5.1 (and above) schemes take more space than S/PDIF was designed to handle but this applies to optical as well as Coax.

Note, a 12-foot(ish) Toslink cable isn't too hard to come by (we stock 1, 2 and 5-meter Toslink cables ourselves and they are not too pricey either. An advantage of coax is that one can make the length what they need and get good transmission quality so long as the cable is good and the ends are well made.

Steve

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2007 11:28 AM

And indeed I might just convert to optical cable or I might just get a new sound system that takes the HDMI cables. I guess this works by using HDMI cable from the Blu ray DVD player to the Sound System. Then you use another HDMI cable from the Sound System to the Projector. So I need a new amp that has two HDMI connections. One input and the other output. I actually have a $1000 budget and really learning as I go on this. I just don't want to have $100's in cables I don't need and can't return.

The 1400 to me was a free for 30 days lets try this plug and play. That is, unplug the component cables and unplug the coaxial cable pull the old DVD player out and install the new 1400 Blu-ray player and reverse the procedure. Presto I am ready to play Blu-ray at 720p in 10 minutes. Let's just see what that looks like. Now on to the other issues. I should have this down by Christmas.

Although the only real unknown issue is should I send in for my free DVD's with the 1400 player and then find out I want to upgrade to a Sony. Then should I send in for more free DVD's on the Sony Player.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 12-14-2007 01:13 PM

You'll find that there are more and more receivers out there that will take HDMI. At the moment most that take HDMI will only take 2 sources. As for cables, video, when done well, typically costs more in cables as cable quality often impacts quality and reliability.

Personally, I wish they had gone with good old coax for it all...HDSDI for the picture and 3 runs of coax for PCM audio. The cable is relatively cheap and easy to make. But for consumers, everything needs to be plug-n-play and more cables means misconnections...which becomes the product's fault. HDMI puts it all in one cable that really should have had a locking option.

Anyway...you'll find HDMI cables priced at all over the place...for shorter ones, most anything will most likely work if it is made well...for the longer ones make sure they are good quality and rated to run their length. Even using good quality cables, you should be able to buy the pair for under $100.

Steve

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-14-2007 01:26 PM

quote: Larry Myers
The projector I am using is the Panasonic PT-AX100U and it will do 1080p.

The Panasonic PT-AX100U according to online documentation is a 1280x720 panel projector. Does anyone care to explain to Larry why this is a shitty projector to be viewing 1080 content on? [Roll Eyes]

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2007 02:02 PM

Sure it's a shitty projector that goes along with my shitty Blu-ray projector and my shitty Sony 5.1 sound system. The most important thing is, it's MY shitty system. So Brad, you stick to your SHITTY system and I will stick to mine. Really Brad, you need to GET A LIFE!!!

In any event, I really don't care that the project only does 1280 X 720. The idea is to get the best balance digital system I can with sound and image for a few thousand dollars.

Although in Brads own way, he does have a very important point. He is saying that my system is already "Balls to the Wall" and any additional money spent on cables or otherwise is really money down the drain. None the less, I do believe a will purchase a 3 ft $25 HDMI cable at Wal-Mart for that next 1080p step to see where it goes.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 12-14-2007 02:46 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
The playstation 3 is the ONLY reason they have sold ANY Blew Ray players at all.

Gimme a break. You need to use some common sense. True, Playstation 3 represents a large quantity of Blu-Ray capable machines, but so what? Too bad XBOX 360 can't do the same for HD-DVD.

quote:
Sure it's a shitty projector that goes along with my shitty Blu-ray projector and my shitty Sony 5.1 sound system. The most important thing is, it's MY shitty system. So Brad, you stick to your SHITTY system and I will stick to mine. Really Brad, you need to GET A LIFE!!!

Easy...your projector isn't the best to view 1080p material because it's not a 1080p projector. Sony doesn't make the best amps unless you go the ES route. If you enjoy it, great, but it is not cutting edge OR anywhere near reference equipment. I don't think he meant to purposely offend.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 12-14-2007 03:57 PM

Shitty is probably a bit harsh of a word for the projector. I have not seen this unit but by all accounts it is better than all of the 1280x720 projectors that preceeded it by Panasonic and that is saying quite a bit. It isn't 1080 but it doesn't price out like a 1080 projector either.

It isn't what I would choose today but everyone has their price/quality point and when you are coming from NTSC video, a good 1280x720 projector running HD content is going to look fantastic by comparison. Having lived with 1366x768 resolution for a couple of years now, I'm ready to move up to 1920x1080 and be done with it. But it wasn't until this fall that such projectors were in my price range. Then again, those projectors will require me to change my screen to get the light since I set up my screen for a bright projector (2200 lumens). The home 2K projectors are typically around 1000 lumens give or take a 100. That said, it will probably be another year before I make the change.

Steve

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-14-2007 04:16 PM

quote:
Sure it's a shitty projector that goes along with my shitty Blu-ray projector and my shitty Sony 5.1 sound system. The most important thing is, it's MY shitty system. So Brad, you stick to your SHITTY system and I will stick to mine. Really Brad, you need to GET A LIFE!!!

Great way to talk to the moderator of this forum. Perhaps even a little risky. You claimed your projector had 1920 X 1080 "1080p" resolution. Brad pointed out that you were wrong about that.

I don't know, but is it that you're a bit peeved because you might have thought you had a 1080p projector and now the truth is revealed that you do not?

I've been pretty militant about avoiding HDTV products that don't really deliver the full 1920 X 1080 pixel picture and do so with both video source and computer source connections. It is only within the last several months that HDTV products are finally delivering on those points after all these years.

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