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Topic: Real D & Dolby 3-D - What is the difference?

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-31-2009 08:28 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
Where is DTS with their 3D system?

They're probably too busy making out like bandits with Blu-ray to bother with D-cinema 3D. I'm pretty surprised at how many movies on Blu-ray carry those DTS-HD Master Audio sound tracks. Shit, even Disney is doing the DTS thing now.

Has to be something about the licensing deal. Nevertheless, since every Blu-ray player supports DTS decoding, DTS is all over that format. There still may be more Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD titles on Blu-ray, but DTS is commanding a much higher percentage of titles than they ever did with DVD or Laserdisc.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-31-2009 10:01 PM

The DTS of cinema is now completely separated from the DTS of consumer (Blu-Ray). It would not surprise me if the DTS-DCinema folks change their name.

[ 04-01-2009, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-31-2009 10:20 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
And what is this I hear about the standard only needing to be 4.5 Footlamberts with the glasses on?

Yeah, when I saw the digital 3-D demo at one of the conventions a couple of years ago, the projector people were all raving about "finally, a 3-D picture that will be just as bright as a 2-D picture." Unfortunately, that was total crap. It still looked like watching a movie through sunglasses.

Granted, technology has probably improved since that demo. At least I hope it has.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-31-2009 10:30 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
It would not surprise me if the DTS-DCinema folks change their name.

I can absolutely guarantee you they will have to in the next several years!!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-31-2009 10:32 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
The DTS of cinema is not completely separated from the DTS of consumer

Do they really need to be? When it comes down to it, it's just products that they sell or offer. For the home stuff, I think they'd just need a couple of people marketing it. I doubt they are actively developing new codecs since DTSHDMA can handle anything needed well into the future.

Why would they change their name? Does DTS have a horrible reputation that they need to distance themselves from?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-31-2009 10:52 PM

My understanding is DTS sold off its cinema products department to concentrate on the consumer electronics end. Licensing DTS branded stuff out to home theater is a far larger market than anything relating to commercial cinema. I guarantee Dolby has made many times more money over the years through consumer electronics technology licensing than it ever made through movie theaters. Movie theaters run in the tens of thousands. Consumer electronics customers number in the billions. Real easy math.

However, I think it is a bad move in the long term for DTS to separate the two divisions. There is a certain prestige factor for marketing in having ties to commercial theaters and placing new technology in commercial theaters. Dolby clearly understands that.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-01-2009 06:05 AM

I've now corrected my typo...DTS Digital Cinema IS separated from DTS consumer.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 04-01-2009 07:36 AM

If they used two projectors, it probably would be just as bright, or pretty close to it. And, as a nice side effect, the eyes would be in sync too!

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 04-02-2009 04:22 PM

DTS will market already-developed Master Image 3D solution just as Dolby marketed already-developed Infitec and RealD already-developed Colorlink.

quote:
DTS Digital Cinema and masterImage USA, Inc. have reached an agreement by which the masterImage MI-2100 3D Digital Cinema System will be offered for sale through the DTS dealer network.

This agreement leverages DTS Digital Cinema's visibility into ongoing and upcoming 3D installations and the decision of masterImage to utilize the DTS Digital Cinema dealer network to penetrate the worldwide cinema marketplace.

The MI-2100 will be offered by DTS dealers as a stand-alone solution as well as by way of a package deal.

"We are excited to be able to offer such a robust system to our dealers, resellers and service groups as we continue to expand in the digital cinema market,” said Jason Vreeman, Vice President of Global Sales, DTS Digital Cinema. “This commitment to the masterImage system comes in response to the demands of our customer base which is looking to enter the 3D arena with a high end presentation at a reasonable price".

Meanwhile, to address the low light levels of Dolby systems, Dolby has started to officially support dual-projector setups:

quote:
Barco, a global leader in digital cinema projection technology, is pleased to announce that its projectors play a vital role in Dolby's latest dual 3D digital cinema offering. The solution, consisting of a dual-stack Barco projector and Dolby's dedicated 3D technology, more than doubles the light output, offering perfect image quality and light output for large auditoriums.

This 3D cinema solution will be marketed by Dolby as Dolby® 3D for large screens, and includes a twin Barco projector setup. The solution offers ideal light efficiency for screens ranging from 41 to 70 feet wide. The Dolby 3D large screen solution is currently available and compatible with all of Barco's digital cinema twin projector offerings, including the ultra-bright DP-3000 flagship projectors.

“Dolby realizes that exhibitors need the flexibility to provide a premium 3D experience in their largest and smallest auditoriums, and with this announcement, Dolby is well positioned to be able to support exhibitors' various needs,” stated Page Haun, Senior Director of Cinema Marketing, Dolby Laboratories. “We are delighted to have worked with Barco on developing this new 3D technology, resulting in a dedicated solution that renders 3D in large auditoriums with realistic colors and a pristine image quality.”

quote:
Dolby Laboratories, Inc. (NYSE: DLB), announced today at ShoWest 2009 that exhibitors will now have the ability to play back content using Dolby® 3D Digital Cinema to provide a premium viewing experience in their largest auditoriums.

By implementing Dolby 3D for large screens, exhibitors can project Dolby 3D onto screens ranging from 41 to 70 feet. The new Dolby 3D large-screen solution is compatible with all of Barco’s digital cinema twin-projector offerings, including the ultra-bright DP-3000 flagship projectors.

“This is a milestone for Dolby 3D projection capabilities, as screen size has to date been limited to accommodate a range of up to 40–42 feet,” stated Page Haun, Senior Director, Cinema Marketing, Dolby Laboratories. “Dolby realizes that exhibitors need the flexibility to provide 3D in their largest and smallest auditoriums, and with this announcement, Dolby is now able to support exhibitors’ various needs.”

"Exhibitors have told us they want 3D without compromise. No excuses, no compromises, simply the right amount of light and a consistently beautiful image for screen sizes reaching all the way up to 70 feet," said Wim Buyens, Vice President Digital Cinema for Barco's Media and Entertainment Division. “With Barco's twin-projector offering and Dolby 3D for large screens, exhibitors can now move 3D audiences into their largest auditoriums to maximize 3D revenues."

Barco already had integrated Infitec 3D technology in their projectors YEARS before Dolby started to offer it to cinemas. Go figure.

Funny how the industry first said: "Oh, 3D, to be done right, has to be digital, not like the dual projection of the past, where light levels had to be matched and there were keystone problems."

.... Hmmm... Like Digital Imax 3D's and now Dolby-Barco dual projection 3D?

"Nor do the single projectors over/under systems of the 80's work either: they split the frame through the "lens" in half, giving half the resolution and producing keystone problems...."

...Hmmm.... Like Sony's Digital 4K over/under systems?

All this comes to show what we all knew: The best 3D has always been there. Either dual projection like in the 50's (no triple flash or any other hack) or single projection like in the 80's (or like Sony's or any other dual-projection or split-lens).

What happens is that they saw 3D as an excuse to push digital. And it's working. If studios wanted, they could just produce an over/under 3D 35mm print and theaters only would need a $500 adapter (or a $2000 split lens) and a new screen to do exactly what Sony is touting with their brand-new, top of the line 4K digital.

But then we wouldn't be needing all this fine people of RealD, or Barco, or Dolby, or AccessIT, or ...

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 04-02-2009 05:24 PM

Based on what I've been hearing from other theatres, one of the biggest problems with the Dolby system is the glasses.

The Dolby glasses cost something like $30 per pair.
They are distributed prior to each showing and collected after the showing. This requires additional man power.
The theatre must maintain two sets of glasses for each auditorium because they need to be cleaned before being redistributed. Again this requires more man power.
Even with staff standing outside the auditorium collecting glasses, the theatres are losing several pairs from each showing.

Even though RealD requires greater upfront costs due to the need for a silver screen, it doesn't take long for the Dolby system to become more expensive when you're replacing glasses at $30 a pop plus the extra labor involved.
I haven't seen the Dolby system in action, so I can't comment as to which offers superior quality presentation. I have seen several RealD presentations and I didn't have any issue with the image quality. It might be more of an issue if you have wide auditoriums with more seats further off center of the screen. But from a practical operations standpoint, the RealD system seems to be far superior to the Dolby system.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-02-2009 05:35 PM

The glasses are a little less than $30/pr. There is a promotion right now for the next couple of months where they are buy-1 get-1 free (until about the end of May).

As for loosing glasses...it hasn't been an issue from the theatres I service yet (and I've asked).

As for cleaning them...it doesn't require more man power as they get cleaned once the theatre is in...you also are not manually cleaning them. So they are cleaned during the down time. I've also heard that some people are just issuing sanitizing wipes with the glasses. While it is a bit of a "self-serve" mentality...the patron also knows that the glasses have been adequately cleaned too.

If you do the math, even if you lose half of your glasses before their expected 500-use cycle, presuming you are paying full-price for all of them...it still is only about 11-12 cents per show. The studios have announced that they are not going to be providing glasses in the future with Fox being the first on this...the theatre cost is supposed to be about 69-cents a pair...plus you also have Real-D taking 50-cents or so with each ticket sold, regardless of your split with the studio.

The math favors Dolby in the long term. In the short term, Dolby's deal cuts your glasses expendature in half.

One can also install security devices in the theatre that the glasses will trigger to assist in keeping the glasses from leaving.

Steve

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 04-02-2009 08:00 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
It would not surprise me if the DTS-DCinema folks change their name.

quote:
I can absolutely guarantee you they will have to in the next several years!!

quote: Joe Redifer
Why would they change their name? Does DTS have a horrible reputation that they need to distance themselves from?

quote:
DTS Digital Cinema announced today that it will begin operating under the trade name Datasat Digital Entertainment from April 1, 2009. The company is a market leader in providing digital cinema technology to motion picture exhibitors and distributors. Founded in1993 the company was the first to provide 5.1 digital surround sound to the film industry. The company will maintain the DTS Digital Cinema brand name for all cinema related products and services.

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Justin Gorka
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 174
From: High Wycombe, England
Registered: Apr 2006

posted 04-05-2009 04:00 PM

Being a person who wears subscription glasses I find the Dolby too heavy on ton of normal glasses, also when perched on the nose the viewing angle is very small. Real-D for me any day!

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-05-2009 07:16 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
As for cleaning them...it doesn't require more man power as they get cleaned once the theatre is in

I don't understand what that means. At minimum, doesn't someone have to collect the "dirty" glasses, take them to where the washer is, load them in the washer, then unload them and take them back to where they're distributed to the customers? With potentially several hundred pairs to clean per show. This all seems like labor above and beyond just handing out a pair of Real-D glasses to each customer at the box office (new, wrapped). How can there possily be no additional labor? I guess you're saying the cleaning takes place when the current show has begun so the people doing the cleaning would not otherwise be engaged in any other useful activity? All this work with glasses seems like "new" work that wouldn't exist otherwise. Either you take staff away from auditorium cleaning, concessions, or somewhere, so they can clean the glasses, or you add 1 or 2 extra people to clean the glasses so you're not short on staff somewhere else.

Sanitary wipes: There's a lawsuit waiting to happen! You're a parent taking your 3 kids and a bunch of their friends to a 3D movie. You stop at concessions and buy kids meals etc. then go to your auditorium. Now each kid is eating and drinking and excited about the movie and the parent has been handed a batch of dirty glasses and some wipes and in the middle of this chaos you the sole adult in the group are now responsible for making sure the 3D glasses are "safe" for all the kids to handle? You don't even know for sure that the glasses were properly cleaned by any of the recent previous users. Holy crap, I don't like that idea at all. [Eek!]

I dunno, seems like Dolby 3D would have to be hella-better than Real-D to make it worth all the hassle to theater owners.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-05-2009 08:14 PM

David,

You had it right on the first part...the labor is already present at the theatre...less time to "lean."

As to cleaning them, they are loaded into a tray and then the cleaner does the work...it isn't all that difficult.

As to cost to the theatre...Dolby is increasingly becoming the cheaper means...with the free-ride coming to an end on the polarized system.

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