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This topic comprises 12 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ...  10  11  12 
 
Author Topic: Star Drek
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-21-2008 11:20 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tristan Lane
Bobby, If you're bored by the thread, don't read it. It's only funny when Heenan posts the sleeping emoticon.
Okay. Take my posting of the [sleep] icon 100% serious if you like.

This thread was originally about the new Star Trek trailer. Not a bunch of tired bullshit about what constitutes a real Star Trek fan and proper storyline, etc., etc., etc. As serious as so many people take this particular topic there's probably some guy writing his doctoral dissertation on a proper Star Trek storyline. Trouble is the other 99.9% of the public doesn't care.

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Michael Gonzalez
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 790
From: Grand Island , NE USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-21-2008 11:34 PM      Profile for Michael Gonzalez   Email Michael Gonzalez   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Star Trek DS9 - 6x19 - In The Pale Moonlight Is the best episode ever of ANY of the series....

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 11-21-2008 11:52 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tristan, what you see as DS9's faults, I see as its attributes.

First off, DS9 was not more popular than VOYAGER, not by a long shot. And that's actually a key factor in what I feel is its success. While Voyager was oopin' it up on the UPN, DS9 was in syndication, way under the radar. Because of this, and the fact that most people, like yourself, preferred a more traditional form of TREK, the DS9 writers were pretty much left alone to do whatever they felt like doing.

Ira Steven Behr used this to his advantage in order to tell stories that many people considered to be outside of Roddenberry's vision. Instead of presenting the universe as a simplistic paradise, Behr dug deeper in order to figure out what it was that made that paradise tick. I see this as being the central theme of the show, and it's one of the big reasons why I like it so much.

VOYAGER, on the other hand, had a slam-dunk premise which, in my opinion, they somehow managed to screw up. The idea of squishing two enemy crews together onto one ship and throwing them onto the other side of the galaxy is fantastic. The tension inside of that ship should've made it feel like the thing could explode at any minute. But instead, they were all one big happy family after a season or two.

To be fair, I kind of liked what they did with Seven of Nine, and there were about two seasons in there where the show kind of hit it's sweet spot and was actually pretty good. But at that point in time, DS9 was at its absolute peak, which greatly overshadowed anything they were doing on VOYAGER.

As far as DS9's heavy continuity is concerned, I see that as a major plus. I know that everyone's viewing habits are different, and that some people like to tune into shows at their convenience. Personally, I like it when TV shows have really heavy continuity. If there's an episode of a show which has little to no impact on the overall series, I feel like I've been cheated out of an hour of my life.

And that pretty much sums up how I felt about VOYAGER. In the first episode, they get lost. In the last episode, they get home. And in the other 168 episodes, nothing even remotely relevant or interesting occurs.

DS9, on the other hand, sets up its premise in the first episode and follows it through all the way to the end. Sure, there are some duds, especially in the early years. But at the end, I felt like I had actually seen seven years of these characters' lives and not just an arbitrary collection of adventures.

In regards to tone, I think that VOYAGER tried to be somber, but failed. Every opportunity they had to tell a story with real emotion was squandered by this ridiculous need they felt to maintain the status quo. Take, for example, the show's best episode, YEAR OF HELL. The title is pretty self-explanatory, and I feel that this is exactly what the entire series should have been. But then by the end of the episode, everything that occurred gets erased. So why did we even bother watching?

DS9 has episodes like that, but they actually matter. While the tone of the series did change from week to week, I see that as a positive. People have good days and bad days. That's life. DS9 did a great job of capturing that. Not everything is life and death. Sometimes, the big conflict of the week is whether or not you can beat the Vulcans in a baseball game.

If you're interested in seeing all that DS9 has to offer crammed into one single episode, I highly recommend watching IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT from Season 6. It is the darkest, most depressing episode in Star Trek's history, and it's unlike anything they've done before or since. It works perfectly as a standalone episode, but the events which occur also have a lasting impact on the rest of the series. It's absolutely brilliant. If you don't like that episode, then DS9's not for you. But if you do like that episode, check out the rest of the series. You won't be disappointed.

EDIT:
quote: Michael Gonzalez
Star Trek DS9 - 6x19 - In The Pale Moonlight Is the best episode ever of ANY of the series....
I missed that post at first, but yeah! What he said!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-22-2008 02:47 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tristan Lane
It's only funny when Heenan posts the sleeping emoticon.
It's not even funny then.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 11-23-2008 12:13 AM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[sleep]

How about now? [Big Grin]

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-23-2008 12:35 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tristan Lane
If you're bored by the thread, don't read it.
Seriously. Let the nerds argue. It's not hurting anyone. Posting any icon telling everyone you're bored doesn't do anyone any good. As for what the thread was originally about vs. what it's become, well, so it's drifted. Like that never happens.

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Julie Lucero
Film Handler

Posts: 37
From: Valencia, California, USA
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted 11-24-2008 08:50 PM      Profile for Julie Lucero   Email Julie Lucero   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Schindler
The thing about Roddenberry is that his vision vastly outweighed his talent.
Probably true...but shouldn't Roddenberry be given credit for having that vision and for hiring the right people to bring that vision to the screen?

The best episodes of the original series, in my opinion, were written by D.C. Fontana, Harlan Ellison and David Gerrold. And the only really good TREK movies were the ones written and/or directed by Nicholas Meyer.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 11-25-2008 02:49 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Julie Lucero
The best episodes of the original series, in my opinion, were written by D.C. Fontana, Harlan Ellison and David Gerrold. And the only really good TREK movies were the ones written and/or directed by Nicholas Meyer
I second that!! [thumbsup]

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 12-13-2008 10:30 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's an interview with the film's co-writer, Roberto Orci, over at trekmovie.com where he discusses the inconsistencies between the new movie and the known chronology. Without getting into any spoilers, the story essentially starts with someone from the post-TNG era traveling back in time to before the original series, and doing something which has a major impact on certain key aspects of Star Trek continuity. This will explain many of the differences between the original series and the new movie.

Also, there's going to be a 4-part comic book series starting in January called STAR TREK: COUNTDOWN which was co-plotted by the film's writers. It's a TNG story which bridges the gap between the end of NEMESIS and the start of the new movie. Should be cool...

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-15-2008 10:08 PM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a theory that Piccard never really escaped from The Nexus in Star Trek Generations. Everything we've seen since the moment he got into that thing is just Piccard's fantasy and has nothing to do with the "Canon" of Star Trek... including all of the TV episodes and other movies made since then. That was the moment when Star Trek canon went out the window. The rest of the crew died when that planet was blown up, period.

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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted 12-16-2008 02:45 AM      Profile for Kurt Zupin   Email Kurt Zupin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Okay. Take my posting of the icon 100% serious if you like.

This thread was originally about the new Star Trek trailer. Not a bunch of tired bullshit about what constitutes a real Star Trek fan and proper storyline, etc., etc., etc. As serious as so many people take this particular topic there's probably some guy writing his doctoral dissertation on a proper Star Trek storyline. Trouble is the other 99.9% of the public doesn't care.

I've just been brushing over this from time to time and came across your post Bobby. Did you ever think that this is how everyone feels when you go off on Shotguns vs. Handguns and there ability to kill someone, or when you go off on any number of your long winded rants? Probaby not. Why don't you let fanboys have there debate and just skip this thread. End semi rant

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Joe Tommassello
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 547
From: Coatesville, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted 12-16-2008 04:20 PM      Profile for Joe Tommassello   Email Joe Tommassello       Edit/Delete Post 
Saw the trailer in IMAX - real 15/70 honest-to-God movie film IMAX. The movie doesn't look any better but it looked bigger. I was with a date who has a fear of heights. It was her first "IMAX Experience" and the scenes in the beginning panning over the precipice had her spinning...a nice introduction for an IMAX virgin. I plan to be open-minded when it comes out but they have a long way to go to before I am convinced...and I imagine very many other fans of the original era.

quote: Mike Schindler
the story essentially starts with someone from the post-TNG era traveling back in time to before the original series, and doing something which has a major impact on certain key aspects of Star Trek continuity. This will explain many of the differences between the original series and the new movie.
This is what is technically known in screenwriting terms as...a cop out!!!! Why didn't they call it "Back to the Future" then? The equivalent of the infamous George Lucas "from a certain point of view".

Maybe they just should have gone far enough back in time to get Kirk's mommy drunk on Romulan Ale and - since it's who the new Kirk looks like - have her bang Matt Damon (the actor, not a character played by him, who also came through the same time travel device to that point in his future) while her husband - who eventually will think he's Kirk's dad - was out delivering milk or whatever the fuck he did for a living. See where this is going folks?

[ 12-16-2008, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Joe Tommassello ]

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-17-2008 12:42 PM      Profile for Scott D. Neff   Author's Homepage   Email Scott D. Neff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree. Let the nerds talk. I enjoyed reading all these threads and look forward to the new movie.

But it should be known that I'm about the only person out there that liked Voyager. I liked it immensely for the sole fact that it WASN'T Captain Kirk or any of the familiar crew.

My favorite episodes of any of the series were those that intereacted with other ships and gave you a glimpse that each ship was different. The question always popped into my head about what the hell everybody else was doing while Captain Kirk screwed some bimbo. "The Doomsday Machine" is probably my favorite of TOS because you got to see that things were similar but another ship had it's own personality. You got to see a different version of the Enterprise, and it was all beaten up and the crew there wore the same uniforms but with different logos. You could see that while Kirk would've made one decision, Decker would've made another. I enjoyed the same thing about the TNG episode where Picard gets all Ferrengi hypnotized and goes back to the Constellation. You could see that some ships were piles of crap and that not everybody out there was in command of a beautiful cruise ship. So finally, with Voyager, we got an entirely new set of characters making different decisions than those the previous crews might've made, and it all took place on what was supposed to be a short range ship that wasn't equipped to support people on 5-year missions etc. etc.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 12-17-2008 12:45 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott D. Neff
I'm about the only person out there that liked Voyager.
I also enjoy Voyager.

And TNG. And DS9.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-17-2008 01:15 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess you liked "The Ultimate Computer." too.

The similarities between ships were pretty great...Kirk's chair was a low-back...most others were high-backs to denote it was a different ship.

Steve

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