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Topic: Best/worst projector

Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-29-2004 12:33 PM

The AA 11's at the Stag were not wonderful as to side weave. This projector is not too good on this parameter, particularly in scope. It was downright embarrassing against the DLP side by side in motion artifacts.

The gates did not fit the projector properly despite having the correct serial number.

I sold the carcasses of the XL's to Dan Eiseman who interfaced them for use at the Stag. Believe it or not they were the most basic of old Drive In junkers.

Why Lucas decided to eliminate 70mm capacity is the question. There is no place on the ranch to see 70mm prints.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-29-2004 02:35 PM

Thx for the model number. Yes, it was the FP-23, and we had a 2.5K xenon lamphouse tied behind that Kinoton - just a very pretty, extremely steady picture. Here's the pict of that setup we ran. thx-Monte

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-29-2004 08:00 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
As to the PR-1014 (cinema) versus the PR-1020 (studio) head. There are several changes...the studio head gets a 3-wing shutter, a fire shutter is standard (optional on the PR-1014 now) and a studio straight gate.

First off that straight gate is one of the worst gate designs to come from Simplex. Parts are also sometimes VERY hard to get for them and it seems that only one employee at Strong knows about them. Cineplex ordered that gate for quite a few locations on its standard booth package and one other local giant plex also has them. Use them(or any other Simplex straight gate) if you want bad focus flutter with any lamp over about 2kw. Heat filtes don't help.... Cinefocus on the other hand is amazing in what it does. Another really poor feature of that gate is that individual pads, especially the top pad, does not get even pressure from the springs and hence the film is not getting even pressure. This also causes the flat film trap runners to wear unevenly and the pressure pads also typically wear unevenly. Yea, really good design [Roll Eyes]

.

Any Simplex or Century can be equiped with a 3 bladed shutter,it no big deal and is fairly inexpensive. The Century SA can also recenter its lens mount as a standard feature... as well as be refitted with the JJ lens shifter detent if the detents are required for exact C/L lens-film alignment.

Sam,
The gates on the DP-70 were never matched to a new projector, they were all machined with fixtures at the factory to tolerances tight enough that matching was not required on a new assembly. They were typocally lept in the wooden boxes so they would end up back on the same projector as wear pattern develope differently on the guides and runner and its the wear patterns that need to be kept track of. The only non-interghangable part that is pinned is the outboard movement bearing and this is located and then pinned and the trap can fit on any machine if everytin else is set up correctly. In fact the gauge for setting the lateral guide position is seperate and is not done with the gate on the projector. If the guides and leaf spring pressure are correctly set the 35mm steadiness easily meets SMPTE. So far I can't remember a rebuilt mechanism leaving for a location that didn't meet it. Another factor is being sure the runner is good.

Mark

Mark

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-29-2004 09:42 PM

Mark,

I hear you, but check out the way the gate fits the Stag projectors. when you tighten the gate knob it looks like it wants to fit crooked like something is sprung.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-29-2004 10:41 PM

The way the PR-1014 reads on the build sheet is a PR-1020 with a change in shutter and gate.

Steve

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Michael Wilkinson
The Entertainment King of Colusa and Beyond

Posts: 89
From: Colusa, CA USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 11-30-2004 01:34 AM

As for favorite machines. I still love my 1014's with curved gates. New 1961! I believe they were changed from straight gate at some point in the 60's or 70's. I was fortunate enough to find a screen scope for one machine. In the last eight years, other than routine cleaning, I have had only to replace the pressure straps, gaskets, the intermittent sprocket (just the sprocket), and the framing lamp switch in one machine.
The picture is rock steady, and the machine runs quiet and smooth. Okay it leaks a little-so what?

As far as the soundhead, I'm running 1947 vintage RCA 9030's. Not one problem-ever-except for the time the cast aluminum Christie projector mounting bracket snapped [Eek!]

In spite of the fall, the only damage was to the motor mounting bracket and the cement floor. Being relatively new out here-I just noticed some old posts for sound-drum modifications? I assume that the reference is to the annoying rubber pad which is on both older Simplex and RCA's alike? Can anyone point me to that topic?

PS Sam, thanks for thinking of us with the 9030 RSTR reader mounting bracket. [thumbsup]

But while I have you here-Am I sacrifcing too much sound quality with a 9030?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-30-2004 01:51 AM

Okey. Newbie talking here on interesting topics and have to ask some questions:

We know that the 1014 was the old "XL" head with a new name, color and made it look more modern, since they had the curve gate "XL" back prob right after they were manufactured back in the early'50s. And I've ran the old black baked on wrinkled versions with the one piece solid rails in my earlier booth years. Now, This is where I get lost: What was the "studio" verion-outside of the three rail assembly in the gate being different of the solid rails of the standard assembly. What was the advantage of the three rail version? Yet, I've seen the three rail version with Supers and E-7's.

Next question, and I'm a bit ashamed on not knowing this that the "XL" had the optional 3 bladed shutter. Wouldn't this cut some light down considerable with that extra blade swinging in the light beam, or am I missing something and don't know the tricks to this variation?

Now, here's the biggie: We know that the "XL" had two INT assemblies: Standard and Hi-Speed. With seeing the diagrams in the part manuals, I'm having a hard time understanding how the hi-speed INT action works. Do they use the same INT sprocket between the two assemblies and what was the hi-speed INT action for..little help here, if possible.

thx a bunch - Monte

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-30-2004 08:02 AM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
What was the advantage of the three rail version? Yet, I've seen the three rail version with Supers and E-7's.

No advantages that I have visually seen. Splices make alot more noise with these gates and the trap runners wear down unevenly.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Wouldn't this cut some light down considerable with that extra blade swinging in the light beam, or am I missing something and don't know the tricks to this variation?

Yes they do cut the light level down. A larger lamp is required with these projectors.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
I'm having a hard time understanding how the hi-speed INT action works. Do they use the same INT sprocket between the two assemblies and what was the hi-speed INT action for..little help here, if possible.

There is driver that replaces the normal location of the cam and is attached to the flywheel in the normal way. On the head of the driver there is a slot for a sliding bar.... the sliding bar has a hole though it that couples to the cam pin which is extended through the back of the cam(mounted to the front half of the movement casing. Due to the angle difference between the location of that sliding bar and its attachment point to the cam pin an acceleration is achieved for the pull down. BTW: The star wheel is a standard star wheel.

Now if you're not confused by what I wrote above then I sure am [Wink]

. Perhaps someone else here can shed some light on why there are at least four different Simplex straight gate assys. The better one has the one piece solid straight pressure pads like in a Ballantyne. These seem to provide the most consistantly even film pressure and much more even wear on the flat trap runners.

Mark @ CLACO

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-30-2004 05:34 PM

Thx Marko for your help on this. Your definition on the Hi-speed INT helped well. But, I still have to ask another question: You know the IMAX here in Boise that REG took over. They installed a Strong console/Simplex 1060 system (can't remember the name of the console, but using the 4k bulb in it) to show 35mm on that big screen. I heard that the 1060 has a hi-speed INT assembly for usage on the big screen presentation-is the jest of my earlier question of the hi-speed INT assembly. Wouldn't a standard INT assembly be justified, or is there a trick in using the hi-speed INT for this special kind of presentation?

I notice this bar/cam arrangement in the parts diagram. Yes, I've seen the different wear pattern on each of the studio's rails and does make sense of the one piece rail that we commonly use - to have the even wear from top to bottom . thx-Monte

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-30-2004 06:27 PM

Monte,

JST CUR, IS THR SOM RZN YOU WRT WTH 3 LTR WRDs?

STG

On to other matters...

quote: Monte L Fullmer
We know that the 1014 was the old "XL" head with a new name, color and made it look more modern, since they had the curve gate "XL" back prob right after they were manufactured back in the early'50s.

We do...do we? Actually, the first version of the PR-1014 was a black wrinkle finish just like PR-1001. Once upon a time, just about any variation to a Simplex product warranted a new part number. A projector head with the door springs (to hold the door open), for instance was a Drive-In head and would have a different PR number than one purchased for Indoor use.

They eventually converged on the PR-1014 for the projector either indoor or outdoor, likewise, the soundheads (SH-1028, if I recall correctly). The removable exciter holder that lasted up until the LED reader era was actaully from the Drive-In version... the Indoor soundheads had a dual holder with a lever to switch between the two lamps...it was the single holder that ended up being the winner.

If Simplex were to have continued as they had (even before Strong aquired them from NSS in the mid-80s) the PR-1014 designation should have been retired as changes were made to the projector. Century fell victum to their incosistant naming too. When the SA came out...it should have been the "A"...the double shutter should have been the "AA"...not this SA and DA crap. But the "A" and "AA" names were used by other manufacturers, I guess.

Next...The Simplex XL came out in the late 40s ('49 if I recall correctly). The oldest document I have for the curve gate is dated FEB 1957. Not exactly right after the machine came out. Note, most of the curved gate specific parts are P-4000 series. Most of the 35mm magnetic penthouse specific parts are P-3000 series...placing the curved gate after 4-track magnetic in 1953.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-30-2004 07:28 PM

Steve,

The three leter thing Monte uses is a local thing in that area of the country only. It hasn't transmuted as far as Boise yet but when it does that city will be nothing but an abreviation.

Monte....

The high speed movement allows for about 70 plus percent light efficiency depending on how far you open the shutter wings up. Originally released in the 60's for drive inns they are no longer made and if the movement "blows" out all you can do is to convert it over to regular pull down.... that conversion takes some machine work and relocating some bushings to accomplish. Not to hard though. I've always noticed a much improved image when using high sopeed movements. The only other one I know of other than in the old RCA and Simplex TV film chain projectors was in the Century Cinemascope 55 projectors. The Powers mechanisms also had a relatively high speed pull down of 5 to 1 instead of the standard 3 to 1 normally used but theyn were not designed as such. Its just a spioff of having the pin cross movement.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-30-2004 08:38 PM

Monte, please learn to spell out your words. Not everyone can follow your abbreviations and even those who can, it's annoying.

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David Yauch
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-01-2004 01:02 AM

Quick question: Most of you listed the V5 on your list of worst projectors because of the horizontal weave. Well after I saw that I went and checked every theatre during my next shift. About 5/25 had noticable weave, one or two were questionable, and the others were as steady as I could imagine them being. The 5 that weren't were all in our smallest auditoriums too. So where does this problem come from, if its not affecting all of them? Of course there is a chance that somewhere along the line these have been modified in some way by our corporate engineering personel, but nothing that I know of.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 12-01-2004 01:21 AM

lol - like a new language.... Ok I'll spell things out, even I've been writing INT's for intermittent for years - just easier to type three words instead of going the full yard. Habit from speed writing in my earlier days. But, it made you think some...

No, Boise and surrounding areas of Boise, are growing like crazy!
Now, there are plans for THREE 18 screeners- all in Meridian/Eagle area, (one REG, and two Indies, plus a 10 screener downtown Boise, in which we don't know right now who is going in-either Marshall Smith, or REG, since it isn't officialy announced..) - down the street from the Egyptain, and across the street from the Flicks.

-Monte

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Ian Joseph Parfrey
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Bollier Queensland Australia
Registered: Sep 2004

posted 12-03-2004 01:40 AM

No contest.
First choice ...Super Standard
Second choice ..C&W P6.
Aussie born and bred with two important attributes.
1. Built to last
2. Simple uncluttered designs without the crap that modern projector designers insist on infecting their machines with. [thumbsup]

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