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Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-17-2003 12:24 PM                        I suppose having our DLP setup in the same city as Christie Digital Systems (and having them in and out of the booth often) leads to our equipment being maintained better than most. Now it's true that digital setups can be poorly maintained, but so can film setups. Not changing end of life lamps can happen in both setups. Not cleaning fingerprinted or dusty port glass can happen in both situations. Poorly setup sound systems can happen in both situations. Gates can be left uncleaned, digital systems don't have a gate to clean. Film's can be built up poorly, scratching the print of getting it dirty. A digital show gets loaded on a computer and either works or doesn't work, they can't make it look any worse than it already does. So my point is that a digital setup allows for fewer opportunities to introduce operator error. Don't get me wrong though, movies done right requires the use of film.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-17-2003 01:08 PM                        My own bad experiences with Digital Cinema presentations include "Digital Hiccups" (evidiently a problem with the server "Miranda Box" (?) that took a week to fix, and forced the theatre to show a film print), excessive flare in the optics giving a hazy image, and a presentation where the highlights were obviously clipped. And with the current digital cinema systems, I've learned not to sit too close to the screen, unless you like seeing the pixel structure and "jaggies". And after being spoiled with Technicolor Dye Transfer and Kodak VISION Premier prints, I expect blacks to be BLACK, and not dark gray.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 03-17-2003 04:32 PM                       quote: "Digital Hiccups" Yep, that's a server issue. The throughput isn't sufficiently high enough to keep up with playback.  |  IP: Logged Evans A Criswell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1579 From: Huntsville, AL, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-17-2003 05:18 PM                        I think that DLP needs to be put on hold until it can deliver 4000 by 3347 pixels (13.39 Mpixels) for scope films, and 4000 pixels by 2162 pixels (8.65 Mpixels) for flat films, at a sufficient color depth and with a sufficient contrast ratio. That would give us something to match what we have now.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-18-2003 09:18 AM                        Kodak Digital Cinema Program Manager Glenn Kennel talks about resolution: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/digital/kennelInterviewP.shtml#p QUESTION: There has been a lot of discussion about how much resolution is 'good enough' for theatrical projection. What should be the standard? KENNEL: We are starting with 2K because we believe you need at least that resolution to create natural looking images that don't block up or have jagged edges. We also believe that in the long term we can do better than 2K. That's important, but resolution accounts for just part of the 'film-look' that audiences associate with a movie-going experience. Today's color negative films give the creative community the ability to record subtle nuances in contrast, colors and textures that are important components of their visual language. We are committed to doing whatever it takes to develop a system that retains all of that visual information. We are determined to set high standards for digital cinema, and we intend to make on-going advances in this technology that will enhance the cinema experience. http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/digital/system.shtml Viewing distance is a key parameter in defining the required resolution of any projection system. Standard SMPTE 196M specifies a viewing distance of 2 to 4 times the image height for critical evaluation of images in review rooms. Many modern theatre designs have closer viewing distances than 2 screen heights, putting greater demands on image quality.  |  IP: Logged Carl King Expert Film Handler Posts: 199 From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-18-2003 10:24 AM                     Nice pic, Joe but ....retard?  |  IP: Logged Evans A Criswell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1579 From: Huntsville, AL, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-25-2003 10:30 AM                        Another example of sucky handling/projection: I went to Carmike 10 (auditorium 1) in Huntsville last night with a friend to see "Bringing Down the House". A couple of flat pieces were shown (they looked fine), then when the flat to scope change occurred, the center of the film image was being projected 2 feet to the left of the screen center. The aperture plate was set to leave the rightmost 2 feet of the screen black. The image did not go 2 feet past the left of the screen though. Guess why? Tape on the port glass to block it (I noticed the tape when I first walked in)! This was very distracting during the previews and distracting to a lesser extent during the movie itself. Also, the DTS and THX traliers shown were flat versions with the scope lens and aperture. On the THX trailer, I could see text below the image with a frame counter, a bunch of other data, and the text "Toy Story". These were stretched by a factor of 2 and occupied a narrow strip of the screen (and don't forget the blank 2 feet on the right side and the off-centeredness that were due to the other problem). I am appalled by the type of presentation, especially in a THX house. With these types of problems, this theatre will not be in second place very long in my presentation quality review section of my web site. Evans A Criswell http://hsvmovies.com/  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-04-2003 08:25 AM                        Hey you--if you handled TES print #000002 of "Lawless Heart," you probably suck. This print arrived with leaders attached with masking tape, ugly yellow splicing tape (not peeled) on all heads and tails, and 2-3 reference frames left attached to all leaders. Although there didn't appear to be any major damage, the print shows signs of wear. This print had obviously been shown in several places (both platter and changeover), so the damage was apparently done by several different operators. Oh, and another "you suck" award should go to whoever sent us a beat-up print (sorry, I forgot the print number) of "Bowling for Columbine" which was missing most of the leaders and tails. This bozo even managed to tear perfs on a polyester-base print. I don't even want to know why there's a really splicy section in R3. Also, as a reminder, shoe polish is for SHOES! And, if you _must_ use shoe polish for any reason, please don't use it to mark anything other than reel changes!  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 04-04-2003 10:11 AM                        Carl- Huh?  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 04-05-2003 10:31 AM                    I'm thinking of a flyer to include with all prints I encounter. It's likely that there are plenty of people out there that just don't know any better Maybe we could all agree on a document and distribute it widely. Such as: ---- If you are the first user to build this print to a platter or big reels you may leave a single frame on with the leaders to assure correct reel identity in the future. But NEVER more than one. DO NOT cut off fades when you have difficulty finding the frame line. Take the trouble to find it so you can present the movie the director intended! If this print has previously been built please open the existing splice and DO NOT MAKE A NEW CUT! Peel the old tape. Use quality splicing tape that peels cleanly with no residue. Clear splicing tape will give your audience the best possible presentation. Never put any foreign matter on the film to mark splices. If you have problems finding the splice on breakdown consider marking the diameter of the film pack on the shipping reels before building your print so when you break down the print you can quickly wind the correct amount of film onto the reel before looking for the splice. Adjust your makeup table rollers correctly so the film does rub on anything that will scratch it including the edge of the platter disk. When breaking down the print reattach leaders with a one-sided splice using your splicer. The next person can open this splice with a quick twist. Resplicing leaders gives the best protection to the print. NEVER EVER HANG THE LEADERS BACK ON WITH PAPER TAPE! SPLICE THEM! If the print came with bands please use them! Don't cut the strings when opening a new print. Recheck your threading before starting to make sure the film passes over the various rollers correctly. While running periodically recheck to make sure film is not riding over some roller in a way that will scratch it. Tweak your focus during the feature. Trailers and other pre-show elements may not focus the same as the feature and lenses may shift in focus as they warm up. Do keep the print clean. If you have a film cleaner use it regularly. Don't take shortcuts that put the print at risk. It's not worth damaging the print to save a minute here or a few seconds there. Treat the print as though it was your personal copy of your favorite film. Do read http://www.film-tech.com on the Internet to learn more about your craft.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 04-05-2003 10:53 AM                    Unfortunatly it is to long. Condence it down to one paragraph. If not it will find thr trash before they get to the second paragraph. try something like this. New print build ups. Please take consideration for future users. Please leave only one ID fram on each leader. Do not use any substances to mark reels (i.e. shoe polish, grease penciles etc.) use clear splicing tape to mark the joins or at least zebra tape no opaque tape. when reattaching leaders please peal off the old tape and reattach using a fresh piec of clear tape. Do not cut off the old tape.  |  IP: Logged John Spooner Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: South Australia, Australia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 04-05-2003 01:09 PM                     Time now for my shot. Looks like "Frida" again is the subject. Our colleague Brad Miller who opened this subject had trouble with this feature as per his post, now I had a poor print. To the careless clown(s) who put the series of running scratches down the right hand side of all 6 spools of print 24 of "Frida", well done. The black lines dancing around the right side of the picture were distracting to say the least. Not to be outdone by that effort, when the dark scenes were on , the lines changed to green so at all times we could see them. Also the random intermittent deep green scratch mark which came and went was not indicative of professional film care. Must have been a choc-topper as a real projectionist checks his equipment and rollers to prevent such damage from occurring. To Brad and those who have written on this post. Are we wasting our efforts outing the poor film handling discussed. The rough clowns that cause damage, leave leaders and tails off, rip perfs and so on would not look at a professional site or forum such as Film-tech in all probability. They could not care less, just as the film exchange personnel would not care as we all know. Regards, John Spooner.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-05-2003 01:31 PM                     Steve Kraus writes, "DO NOT cut off fades when you have difficulty finding the frame line. Take the trouble to find it so you can present the movie the director intended!" I suspect the problem here is not so much that people are lazy, so much as they do not have the tools to do the job properly. Without a sync block, this is a real pain in the butt. It's annoying with the Neumade -style measuring machines, and really annoying if all you have is a piece of paper with a second of film marked on it (measure, mark a tick between sprockets opposite sound side, measure another length, repeat...). It recently ocurred to me to mark the place to cut myself, with a piece of paper tape, an arrow, and "Platter projectionists cut me here!" For me, it happens sufficiently rarely that I get an uncut print (or a mis-cut print) such that I have the opportunity to do this, so its worth the small extra effort. For you and Bill, I'm not so sure if it's worth your time since you get un-cut day-in/day-out. But it seems a reasonable approach. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 04-05-2003 02:17 PM                     Steve K's note idea reminded me of a note I created with PageMaker for a print of a documentary I ran for the 2002 San Diego Latino Film Festival. The print was lab-new when received and plattered with extreme care. The note says it all... ===== Attention Projectionist! If this print will be run on a platter or large-reel system... Reels 1 through 3 end with a fade to black, Reels 2 through 4 begin with a fade-in. Leaders and tails were cut for a previous screening using a platter system, taking these fades and the integrity of the soundtrack into account. There are no match frames. Please help preserve the continuity of this print for all screenings, now and in the future. When making this print up for platter or large-reel projection: Separate leaders and tails by carefully peeling off the tape at the existing splice. Do not make any cuts between the existing leader and tail splices. At the end of the run, peel off the splices between reels as the print is being broken down onto the shipping reels. Splice leaders and tails back on without any additional cutting. Thank you! ===== The print was the filmmaker's, who was grateful for my concern and effort. I speculate, however, some projection monkey at another theatre may have trashed the note and made leader and tail cuts in the picture area, ruining the continuity.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-05-2003 02:26 PM                     I am going to move this discussion here so we can continue to use this one for outing.  |  IP: Logged

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