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Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 05-02-2003 03:45 PM                    Most bad film handling can be attributed to laziness, cheapness, and ignorance. The person who doesn't reattach leaders is probably just lazy or possibly thinks they're saving time for the next person. Someone who makes a new cut instead of opening the old splice is just lazy. Bad habits but at least they are explicable. Once in a while you come across something that defies all explanation. Why would someone cut off exactly 13 frames of each head along with the leader? (Tails were cut 1 frame in and there was also a one-frame-in cut on the head owing to multiple users.) Can someone think of a reason someone would do this? The only thing I can think of--and this is a stretch--would be an old head who was used to running changeovers, was pretty mediocre at it and came into each new reel that far in, figured that must be right, and with the introduction of the platter felt that the new system should imitate the old as much as possible right down to the "expertly" timed changeovers. There must be a better explanation. Exactly 13 frames is not the same as simply leaving "a bunch" for some reason.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-02-2003 04:00 PM                     Steve I had a brand new print come in from Technicolor NYC. The print looked great, SCOPE WELL DONE So the print leaves to go to a theatre in Jackson, MS. It comes back with all the head leaders MASKING TAPED on, And all the tail leaders SCOTCH taped back on, and it was also missing reel 1's head leader all together. I repaired all of the damage for the director, for his screening later that night.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-02-2003 04:40 PM                     Steve, my guess is that people who leave more than 1 ID frame are just stubborn due to the old school train of thought. I am of course referring to way back in the days of acetate film stocks and cement splicers, where the first time the leaders were reattached a single ID frame would be lost...so leave a dozen.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-02-2003 06:06 PM                        I can't believe that could be an explanation. In the first place, anyone old enough to have worked with wet splices more than likely has enough knowledge of print handling that they would never cut off 13 frames. If anything, someone weened on wet splicing is even more sensitive to the problem of distroying frames with each splice. Secondly, I have never heard of that practice anywhere in the industry no matter how far back you can go. No, my theory is that some kid from concessions who has Repetitive Compulsion Disorder was let loose in the booth and he has to do everything in multiples of 13. No harm done when he lines up the popcorn cups in rows of 13 down at the concessions stand; but who could have imagined that he would do the same when he cut the leaders up in the booth?! Frank  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-02-2003 06:18 PM                     Frank, that's no joke. I've heard that countless times from projectionists that have been around for a very long time. I'm just betting that this guy was trained by an old timer and he never bothered to use his own brain to realize how foolish that is.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 05-03-2003 08:45 AM                     I just spent 2 hours on a single reel of a 1980 feature that had almost 15 feet of shoe polish allover the head and tail sections. It had 15 frames cut off the tail. Beautiful base scratches that move left and right. I have 4 more reels to inspect. This print has been sitting since 1982 just waiting for me to come along. Too bad I couldn't save the color. This crap has been going on since the beginning. Some theatres are just crappy and are not going to change. Other theatres, that read this forum, are hopefully reading all of this and seeing that there is room for improvements in their presentations. If every theatre was reading this thread, there would be alot more members. There is a small single-screen theatre is a small town about 40 miles from me that has a glassy-sharp image on their screen with no dirt build-up that I noticed. Super Simplex w/changeovers, too. They are using Film-Guard. I saw a bottle at the make-up table when I toured the booth. There were several more bottles on a shelf near-by. Lucky patrons!  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 05-03-2003 10:18 AM                    Brad's explanation seems plausible. In other horror stories I screened the answer print of Charlotte Sometimes about 2 months ago. I don't recall anything special about the print. Last week we screened the very same print at Ebertfest at the Virginia Theatre in Champaign, IL (twin DP-70s...woo!). In the interval the print had been built and unbuilt by so many operators who made new cuts that each head and tail had 6 to 8 single and double frame splices. This left the C/O cues so close to the end that I had to make new ones. Rather than make distracting new motor cues I measured the new spacing and marked a compensated (9 ft minus so many frames) start position on each subsequent reel. In operation, with the standard post-C/O space available I could wait a beat after the C/O like normal (instead of trying to wail on it) and was exiting the reel the instant after the original C/O cue flashed by. But since this film was made by video people the editing did not make much allowance for changeovers and the real world of film and lost frames so syllables were lost. I forewarned the filmmakers before the showing.  |  IP: Logged Dan Lyons Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 698 From: Seal Beach, CA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 05-30-2003 02:55 PM                     AMC 30 at the Block @ Orange, 5/29/03, 7:10pm showing of "chicago", auditorium #30 Small screen, wall to wall at 1.85 and curved too! No side masking, so I'm hoping they have horizontal masking on it for scope. Print condition was excellant, minor dirt and no scratches. Unfortunatly I was not able to find out if this was the print that's been there since December 27th, or if they ruined a few and had gotten new ones. I'm sure they don't have any sort of cleaners or PTRs, the trailers were filthy. Focus was a hair soft throughout. Now, a list of the Big F-ups for the evening. 1. really bad analog sound used when I could see several digital penthouses on the projector!! (and this film has a wonderful sounding analog track when played back properly) The sound throughout the film was terrible, constant "tv static" sound in the background, and it would become louder and more distorted during loud pasages in songs.  What the hell could have caused that? Something out of alignment? The surrounds were not functioning either. Sound was perfect before the show for that digital preshow nonsense. 2.  End of show, rating band came up, I've never seen anything with so many scratches in my life. Then the tail goes through, LOUD POPS AND BOOMS, then white screen for about 2 seconds before house lights came up. Someone isn't using protection leader on their tails! 3.  I introduce myself to the asst. manager after the show, tell her where I work, and ask if the projectionist is available.  She kindly asked me to wait a moment while she paged someone. SHE SENT OUT THE MANAGER!!. She informed me, "we don't give boooth tours. Who told you that we did?! " Her tone of voice led me to believe she was very angry and wanted to punish an employee. Then I tried to tell her about the problems with the sound, went right over her head... I guess they don't even have a projectionist, which is who I requested to see in the first place. Shame on you AMC. Anyone from the AMC 30 here? If so, I'd love for you to respond. Danny  |  IP: Logged Tom Kroening Expert Film Handler Posts: 214 From: Janesville, WI USA Registered: Oct 1999 posted 05-30-2003 03:56 PM                     Yes I know this topic has been beat to death but I think we all know why bad film handling exists. Some aren't trained properly, some lack good equipment and supplies, some don't care. Why do DVD's rented at blockbuster get scratched? A) Because its very easy to do B) Because we don't own them and don't have to worry about what happens to them once we drop them off. The same applies to film. Many people just don't care because it doesn't affect them. The same also applies to rental cars... people beat them to death. I try to go the extra mile whenever I can, but I don't have the time to do everything. There's no way I'd have time to look for lab splices on every print and replace them. I also love masking tape if its done correctly. I'd rather build a print thats been used and broken down with masking tape then a brand new one. Its 2 times easier to build and 10 times easier to break down (especially on Strong MUT's where the spicer doesn't fit anywhere but the floor). Of course some people who don't use enough tape or don't roll the ends to make removal easy, but otherwise masking tape is great. Dan, the answer to your question is simple. It's a 30 plex run by a big company thats always trying to save money. Money is generally all that matters to those up high. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one digital reader in that 30 plex wasn't working and I'm sure they don't put any emphasis on fixing one in a smaller house when other major things need to be done. When I started working at an 18 plex there were only a few digital readers that were working. After cleaning them, replacing bulbs, realigning them, and training people to not scratch the digital tracks off the prints they were all working when I left. These people didn't know any better and were getting paid $6 to $7 per hour. About the tails, I don't know many theatres that use leader on the tails... every one that I've worked at or visited didn't. Either way its just the tail, even leader on the tail would track dirt into the projector and it would end up on the previews. I recently saw Bruce Almighty at another theatre and it just happened to jump out of SRD 10 seconds into the movie. Instead of suffering through the whole movie I just let the manager know and he just went up and pushed the digital button... it happens. I am in no way defending film done wrong but we all know how it is. Kudos to everyone that has the time to pour over every little detail. I think if we all just try a little harder (we can't be perfect all the time) that it will still have a great effect on your presentation.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-30-2003 05:52 PM                        I can understand if they were having problems with their digital readers or the print, but there's no excuse for crappy optical sound reproduction. In a digital-capable house, I will always choose to play a print in (good) SR if the digital track or reader is the least bit flaky, as dropouts in the digital track are annoying and generate complaints. As for masking tape: no! Prints should be returned in "playable" condition, which requires that the leaders be attached with splicing tape. For those who absolutely refuse to return their prints in playable condition, then AT LEAST use "artists tape" instead of hardware-store masking tape in order to avoid leaving a residue on the film. I really do feel badly for those who do care about what they are doing but are forced to work with those who don't. This was the case in the first theatre where I worked (I was the only one who cared about presentation quality) and it was quite maddening at times. Thankfully, every place where I have worked since then has had very good people who were/are a pleasure to work with (and since I do film work as a hobby, I simply won't work at any theatre that doesn't employ good operators or isn't well managed).  |  IP: Logged Tom Kroening Expert Film Handler Posts: 214 From: Janesville, WI USA Registered: Oct 1999 posted 05-30-2003 06:45 PM                     I understand your arguement for not using tape... seems perfectly valid. If you buy a good enough quality tape it won't leave that nasty residue. Now what does "playable" condition mean these days? There are more platter houses than changeover houses so shouldn't the film come in playable condition for us? or at least on 6000 foot reels that are heads up for easy build up. Maybe its a little war between platter operators and changeover operators. We leave the tape on and they leave the tails up. In the end the odds are your print goes to a budget platter house or gets recycled. Either way my prints leave my theatre without scratches, and with masking tape.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-30-2003 07:55 PM                     Masking tape is unprofessional. This is one of my main beefs with the Strong platter system, that damn near every booth I go into that has them uses masking tape for breaking down all because the designers aren't using their brains. There simply MUST be a place for a splicer and it MUST be in a position to facilitate proper and easy use. Over time (1 week to who knows how long in storage) that masking tape will gum up and then when the next person gets the film he has to chop out several frames because of it. Artist tape also does this, but nowhere near as bad as masking tape. A properly and professionally broken down print should be returned to the depot with a single sided tape splice made on a splicer. This is considered "playable" because if the next theater that gets it is a reel to reel house, they could put it right onto the projector and run their show just like it was a brand new print with uncut leaders. This will never happen in a platter or large reel house, so the argument really doesn't apply. Take a look at the pictures on the first post of this thread. There is masking tape damage to the edges of the film. Bottom line, never ever use masking tape. It IS unprofessional. Remember this picture?  |  IP: Logged Chris Markiewicz Expert Film Handler Posts: 209 From: Glenaviegh, County Tipperary, Ireland Registered: Aug 2002 posted 05-30-2003 08:41 PM                     Amen, Brad! Our last film, Rabbit-Proof Fence, came with the heads and tails DUCT-TAPED on. Took forever to get all the goo off. Lots of base scratches too, very visible due to the outdoor setting (Film-Guard helped a lot). Dan, our print of Chicago was also distorted in the musical numbers (optical). R-PF however sounded AWESOME, great use of all three screen channels and lots of "environment" present in the surrounds  |  IP: Logged Christopher Seo Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 530 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-31-2003 08:35 AM                     Masking-taping the leaders is not inherently evil, but except for a few special situations (perhaps, film festivals where prints are built up/torn down multiple times), it's an annoying practice. As Brad illustrated, the film tends not to be aligned when it's taped together, leading to edge damage. Even if it is lined up, it's not secured, so it will snag and catch on your fingers if you're not expecting it, also leading to damage. However, there is some good tape out there. Better than the "paper tape" is Scotch 2080 painter's tape (or 2090, but 2080 is slightly easier to peel). The only problem is they're both blue.  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 05-31-2003 03:54 PM                     I worked at a place that had Strong platters and never had a problem using a splicer while breaking down prints. Usually had to do several in one night too.  |  IP: Logged

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