Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers)

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Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers)

Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2004 02:53 PM

Posted just to keep Brad happy.

Brad, your wrong, Art Houses are gettting more and more prints straight (Sorry Ky), directly from the lab.

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Brad Allen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-11-2004 03:20 PM

quote:
John P says "Brad is correct to expect that prints that are just opening should be in very good condition. A new print severely damaged in a sneak or trade screening should certainly be reported with a replacement requested, and the culprit theatre charged for the damage."

I have found reporting a damaged print to be a joke, except maybe to protect my own behind.
I've done it many times, and the theatre that was guilty, is still regularly damaging prints 20 years later. If they ever get charged (I doubt it) the lesson has never been learned by them.

It appears if your a big grossing theatre, they will never be charged for the print damage, but heaven forbid if a small guy damages a print, The bill will be in the mail the next day.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-11-2004 03:40 PM

quote:
It appears if your a big grossing theatre, they will never be charged for the print damage, but heaven forbid if a small guy damages a print, The bill will be in the mail the next day.

If you DEFINITELY know the theatre that caused the damage, in addition to reporting it to the distributor and exchange, you should send copies to the manager of the culprit theatre and the District Manager, VP of Engineering, and VP of Operations, (or equivalent) for the offending circuit. I've generally found a very receptive ear from the "technical type" senior managers (even at major circuits), who are in a position to take action on negligence or poor training. As in most businesses today, they are usually having to fight the "beancounters" to keep presentations standards high, and welcome any "ammunition" to convince the MBA accountants that "Film Done Right" is worth the investment.

Here's the latest contact information for all the major circuits:

http://www.boxoffice.com/scripts/content.asp?terms=2074

quote:
GIANTS OF EXHIBITION: NORTH AMERICA 2004
Top 50 Movie Theatre Circuits of the North American Region
By Francesca Dinglasan

Brad Allen --- your other post shows that it seems like no one cares in the big circuits. But you just need to find the people in their management that DO care, and can do something about "Film Done Wrong" when it's brought to their attention.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 03-11-2004 04:24 PM

quote:
It appears if your a big grossing theatre, they will never be charged for the print damage, but heaven forbid if a small guy damages a print, The bill will be in the mail the next day.

That's not unlike any other business relationship.

The more a customer spends (or makes for you) the more likely you're going to be lenient about penalizing them for their muckups.

As a theatre owner, say you're faced with a customer who drops their entire concession order on the floor on the way to their seat. You're probably more likely to replace the entire order free of charge for a customer who comes out every week than you are for someone you've never seen before.

Likewise, I'd be far more likely to not charge a regular customer that bashes one of our rental float planes into the dock necessitating the floats be repainted than I would someone who's never rented from us before.

The more you make for someone the more sense it makes for them to cover the expense of your mistakes. The motion picture exhibition business is no different.

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-12-2004 11:02 AM

quote:
If I get your print and there's something wrong with it, you're going to get a bill from the studio.

Brad, PLEASE tell me how to go about this! [Smile]

At the sub-run, it's hit or miss with prints. For example, we got a Bad Santa wound all over the place and covered in oil, or Paycheck with three green lines going through the whole print. [Frown]

I reject anyting with so much as visible base scratches, but can't get too picky in terms of dirt or light cinch scratches.

On the other hand, we've gotten prints where if the leaders weren't cut, I'd say they were brand new. Our print of Kill Bill was absolutely pristine except for the bit of goo left over from the morons using masking tape on the leaders. Not so much as a stray fingerprint on the thing!

That's one thing I don't understand. We get our Technicolor prints from the same theater usually, based on how the tails are labled and probably from an AMC since the green band is cut at the attatched trailer. They used to Film-Guard the prints but have since stopped. Nothing less of excellent has come from this theater EXCEPT that they MASKING TAPE the leaders!! [Mad]

Had to cut off a few frames once or twice because they got badly creased in the can...

They know how to do everything else right, except splice leaders. [Roll Eyes]

=TMP=

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-12-2004 12:04 PM

quote:
Had to cut off a few frames once or twice because they got badly creased in the can...

In both acetate and poly base prints, a bad crease many times can be countered by simply taking the film and gently rolling it between your fingers in the opposite direction of the crease. In other words, "counter-crease" it against the crease. If my camera was working I would post some demos. You don't want to put so much pressure on the film that it creases in the other direction, only enough to relax the crease. Roll the film between thumb and index finger back and forth over the crease, increasing pressure until the crease relaxes. Except for folds so severe that the film is actually cracking, this method can make creases almost disappear, or at lease relax enough that they will run through the projector without incident.

If you think the crease has weakened the base enough that it has cracked the film -- acetate especially might do this -- and you fear it may rip in projection, put a lengh of splicing tape on the base side. The very last resort would be to splice away frames; in fact, I can't remember ever seeing a fold in a print that couldn't be repaired and made playable.

Frank

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-12-2004 02:24 PM

Thomas, it's a bit of a different ball game at a sub run. Just keep rejecting prints that have damage, but remember that this industry is filled with an overabundance of people who damage every piece of film that they touch (and yet oddly enough they all seem to be convinced that they have a "great presentation"). You've got to run a sub run theater kind of like an art house theater when it comes to presentation standards. If it looks good for the most part and the damage is light, keep it. If not, reject it.

Ian, is this phenomenal quality boost in art house films recent over the last year? I think you've probably just been lucky and it's a coincidence.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-13-2004 01:02 AM

of course it's possible for an "art house" to get mostly lab-new prints, but the flipside is that they are then beholden to the release schedule of "major" "art" films. not much difference then from a normal first-run, in terms of being able to program adventurously. and even when classics are re-released in new prints by rialto (the disrib.) and such, my impression is that only a few prints are struck so the odds of getting a completely unused one are slim.

carl

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 03-13-2004 06:29 PM

I went to see a midnight screening of Fight Club, here in Minneapolis at Crown Theaters' Block E 15, and I just wanted to thank a couple of people... first, thank you to whomever from Lucasfilm came by in the morning to certify this auditorium for THX standards, cleverly ignoring the night club downstairs that had a much more powerful amplifier for it's subwoofers... I mean God, was there someone who thought that the audience could just put the constant thumping of Club music in the back of their brains?
Then, there's whoever built the print and/or ran it, because I enjoy horizontal shaking so much. I'm not talking about the scene with the effect of film falling out of the gate... this print was blurry from all the shake, and it had small green horizontal scratches on the right side of the screen... I don't know what specifically caused this, but I'd imagine if the person building this had a drop of any film lubricant, they used it for other things a long time ago... [Roll Eyes]

Granted, though, there were far fewer vertical scratches (none until R7) than the print I saw last August at the Riverview...

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 03-13-2004 08:16 PM

quote:
thank you to whomever from Lucasfilm came by in the morning to certify this auditorium for THX standards

FWIW, Lucasfilm hasn't owned THX for a almost a couple of years now. Creative Technologies (Yes, the Sound Blaster people) owns THX now.

-Aaron

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 03-14-2004 10:28 AM

Steve Scott wrote: "I went to see a midnight screening of Fight Club, here in Minneapolis at Crown Theaters' Block E 15...."

Hi, Steve; I am the director of projection for Crown Theatres. We know about the nightclub issue. The owner of the building has rented out the area directly under one of the auditoriums and we have no control over them. THX checked the auditorium in Dec 2002; the nightclub went in at about Oct 2003. The building owner and the nightclub operator have spent thousands to isolate the sound, but it is very difficult to prevent the lower frequencies from bleeding through. I'm sorry about your experience, but we are actively pursuing this problem. Regarding the print shaking and scratching, I don't know what happened right now. The print may have arrived damaged, since all 'FC' prints are older. Also, with the late deliveries of prints now, we don't always the time to screen them before running. The projectors there are Kinoton PK60D's which are known for being very steady. But, there's no question we could have made it up and ran it improperly, and I am looking into it.

While I can not prove we did/did not damage the print, I can at least offer you a tour of the projection room. You will see that the place is kept clean, projectors maintained, and the lead operator is knowledgeable. I think that if a theatre is run poorly, you can 'see' that in other areas, especially the projection room. If a tour interests you, please call me at (203) 846-8800 and I will arrange it. (We would be glad to give anyone a tour of any of our theaters; we just ask you pick a time when things are slow.)

Lucasfilm still has a 25% interest in THX.

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Mark Hajducki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Edinburgh, UK
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-14-2004 03:43 PM

Some of the problem with the state of used prints lies with the distributors for retiring (junking) most copies of each film.

Using 'Fight Club' as an example there is (to the best of my knowledge) only 1 print left in the UK. Whilst this print is not in exceptionally bad shape it does show signs of poor treatment in the past including missing frames and 'enhanced' changeover cues. With only one print available (and with help from some of the UK multiplexes) the quality will continue to be degraded and it will become unwatchable.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 03-15-2004 08:27 AM

Neither print I've seen, and I imagine several more circulating have the head (R7 I think), the one right after the car crash, cut short. On the DVD you can see that it's a fade in.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-19-2004 03:28 PM

Crown Theatres Village 18, Skokie, IL

"Lana's Rain" (new print, one week run)

Returned with leaders hung on with paper tape over old join splice tape. Except for Reel 1 where you lost both the head and tail leader entirely. One reel had ID info written with paint pen directly on the film (on the live side of the join). Didn't run it so don't know the rest of its condition.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-19-2004 03:52 PM

Lefont Theatre's Garden Hills Cinemas in Atlanta, Georgia. [thumbsdown]

Print "I'm Not Scared"

Returned with missing leaders & tail for reels 1,2,3 and the rest of the leaders & tails were hung on by paper tape.

The print was circuited to them by TES from a screening room in Beverly Hills. (I've worked that room in Beverly Hills, and they would have never done that to a print).

[ 03-22-2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Bill Gabel ]

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