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Topic: Cyan Tracks
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 03-28-2004 09:16 PM
As Daryl notes, the cyan dye tracks will be optimized for minimum cross-modulation distortion on red LED readers.
Traditional cyan+magenta+silver tracks and B&W silver tracks did not have the same cross-modulation optimization density for red LED and white light readers, so the "high magenta" (magenta+silver) track was developed as a temporary compromise for the current mix of readers.
Once there is only type of reader in use, both color prints (cyan dye) and B&W prints (silver only) can be optimized for minimum cross-modulation distortion on red LED readers.
Old prints that were optimized for white light readers will have a few percent cross-modulation distortion on a red LED reader, but will certainly still be playable, as most theatres have already found.
Errors in applying the viscous soundtrack developer for dye+silver tracks sometimes caused audible sound defects such as thumping (variations in density or width of the silver area) or pops (bubbles or skips in the developed area). Rarely, a few reels might even accidently go out without silver application. Any soundtrack developer that got onto the picture area left behind visible silver spots, stains, or "bleeding".
This was all discussed in the Paul Goldberg paper:
Paul Goldberg SMPTE Paper
Here is the Disney announcement:
Disney Switches to Cyan Dye Tracks in Fall 2004
quote:
Disney Announces Switch to Environmentally Friendly Pure-Dye Cyan Soundtracks on Worldwide Film Release Prints Starting This Fall
BURBANK, Calif., March 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Starting this fall, Buena Vista Pictures Distribution will begin issuing 35mm prints of Walt Disney Pictures and Touchstone Pictures releases with environmentally friendly pure-dye cyan soundtracks, it was announced today (3/22/04) by Chuck Viane, president of Buena Vista Pictures Distribution, and Jeff Miller, executive vice president, Worldwide Post Production and Operations for The Walt Disney Studios. This new soundtrack technology represents a significant environmental advance for the motion pictures industry, and eliminates the use of traditional silver- applicated tracks and the caustic chemicals involved in that process. Buena Vista plans to switch entirely to cyan soundtracks on all of its worldwide release prints by January, 2005. To accomplish this goal, the Disney distribution arm is working closely with Dolby, Kodak, Technicolor and NATO to perfect the technology and encourage theater owners to install RED LED soundtrack readers on their projectors. RED LED readers, which are now standard in all US manufactured projectors, are currently installed in the vast majority of projectors in use in this country. MGM has also announced that they will be issuing pure-dye cyan soundtracks on all release prints beginning this May.
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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 03-29-2004 03:25 AM
quote:
Old prints that were optimized for white light readers will have a few percent cross-modulation distortion on a red LED reader, but will certainly still be playable, as most theatres have already found.
This is an example of evasion of technical issues in an uncomfortable area. Suddenly the discussion switches from performance measurement to a print merely being 'playable'. A print with a green scratch all the way through it is 'playable'. A 'few percent' is all of the picture that is affected.
quote:
Sensitivity to a few percent cross-modulation distortion varies with the individual and the program material. Dialog with lots of "spitty" S sounds tends to emphasize the sibilant distortion.
This will be an utter delight & program-killer in venues like historic theaters that are often bangy & otherwise tricky to EQ. Once again, it's just the offhand dismissal of a segment deemed unimportant or, wilfully or via a need for psychological evasion, not considered at all.
quote:
Once there is only type of reader in use, both color prints (cyan dye) and B&W prints (silver only) can be optimized for minimum cross-modulation distortion on red LED readers.
Old prints that were optimized for white light readers will have a few percent cross-modulation distortion on a red LED reader, but will certainly still be playable, as most theatres have already found.
quote:
Pure silver should be fine IF the cross-modulation distortion was optimized for that reader. An old track optimized for a tungsten reader will have some sibilant distortion.
This is an example of impracticability of a method to maintain use of prints with previous technology. Now, when you get a new-looking print with a silver soundtrack, what will be the method to discern if it was optimized for a tungsten or cyan reader?
---
The adoption of Cinemascope is an example of how the ability to run previous formats was MAINTAINED with the addition of a new system. Addition of Cinemascope did NOT affect running non-anamorphic titles at all. This is where SMPTE is truly getting a black mark for running counter to its previous role in maintaining standards. SMPTE previously ensured compatibility & the use of previous inventory by safeguarding important technical points as placement & specs of soundtrack, picture area, etc. New ideas had to be compatible. Adddition of SRD, DTS, & SDDS had to be compatible with existing sound formats.
As I've mentioned before, Steve Guttag & I disagree profoundly on ecology issues, but I'll agree that using them in ANY way to support this change is duplicitous. In other industries which affect the environment, the resposnibility for maintaining an environmentally sound operation falls with the industry. The industry here is the labs. As an example, in the polluting coal-fired electrical plant industry, it's the PLANTS which must install scrubbers & otherwise invest in systems to maintain their services, they pass their costs on as the cost of the service. Imagine switching to something which would require all consumers to change their outlets, & offering adapters for older appliances which would make them run, but only poorly. But what a boon to the appliance & outlet manufacturers! In this case, though, the beneficiaries are Dolby & the labs, happily passing the costs & deficiencis all to the end user, enabled only by pushing it through via SMPTE.
It's interesting that the directed "smooth rollout" of cyan precluded the gradual introduction of cyan trailers, & just went straight to the point of switching over. This in turn eliminated the possibility of any disagreement & discussion of the system as the tracks appeared, & enabled the unneccessary-to-discuss-the-technical-issues, "Ha, ha, ha, it's too late now, you're screwed, give it up because you can't do anything about it" response from Dolby.
This ingenuous, 'but we told everybody so nobody should argue' stand is dishonest in many ways. Bzzt & smoke go programs, venues, systems of running prints existing to be run pre-cyan. There was in the Moving Image Archivists discussion of the staid platters-vs.-changeover issue related to owners of archive & specialty prints, but there has NEVER been brought to the attention of the archive folks who send their prints out to some theaters that run platters, some changeover, that with the red readers that were mandated for cyan tracks that their prints will now sound distorted, sibilant, & 'spitty'. They're not just archives, but companies like Kino which have as a business maintaining a library of specialty titles for rental. For a huge burst of excitement, it would be nice to see a plain, technical, operationally-inclusive & performance-oriented statement such as the above broadcast to them. It would be honest, at least, & the resulting entertainment would be the deserved reward for that honesty.
--
As a fun trivia tidbit, there was a theater dating from the silent days on Canal Street in New Orleans, narrow building, about a 20 foot wide screen, which NEVER ran a scope film. That would have resultied in a screen only about 8 feet high! It would have been stupid esthetically & thus in any business sense to put such a picture up. So they never added scope, just ran non-anamorphich titles & did pretty well up through the early 1970's, when the theater was sold to create a parcel to accommodate a new larger building. Cinemascope was an ADDITION, an option, not a replacement, & non-destructive; completely the reverse of the cyan soundtrack & red reader mandate.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 03-29-2004 03:35 AM
quote:
Addition of Cinemascope did NOT affect running non-anamorphic titles at all.
Yes it did; and as you point out in relation to John's post about silver tracks and in your closing anecdote, the issue is one of relative performance rather than whether you can play them at all. Try showing an Academy ratio film in a '30s auditorium which was been rebuilt in the '50s for 'scope, and the picture will as likely as not be about the size of a postage stamp, with several square miles of black masking fabric all around it.
It's very rarely that you find a theatre which has the masking on all four sides needed to show 1-38 at its best (the place in Vancouver where the screenings at last year's AMIA conference took place was a lovely exception, with a big, tall screen which virtually filled your field of vision). Seems to me that the compatibility issue with 'legacy' tracks and red readers is a very similar one. You'll still be able to play them, but they won't sound as good.
Personally, rather than bring in cyan tracks, I'd have got rid of the analogue SVA track altogether and started issuing Super 35 release prints with two Dolby digital tracks, one between each set of perforations (one being a backup). That would solve the environmental problem (if there ever was one), give you a much bigger frame, and if theatres are going to be forced to install new equipment anyway, they might as well go digital at that point. After all, 99.9% of mainstream film releases now have digital sound anyway; and the small number of foreign titles which don't could continue to use a silver track. Given the number of release prints they account for, there can't be much of an environmental argument against that. Theatres which show archive and rep titles could then have kept their exciter bulbs and everyone would have been happy. Sure, theatres would need new lenses and plates (not to mention realigning their projectors to account for the change in optical centre of the frame), and such an idea would screw DTS (the timecode would have to go at the edge of the new frame and readers in the field modified accordingly). But given the huge increase in image quality, I'd say it would have been worth investigating.
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With just SVA, one can create a nifty system that can either use traditional poles or using two different frequencies create a front and rear sound field.
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