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Author Topic: Cyan Tracks Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-06-2003 02:53 PM                     quote: How many theatre technicians does it take to screw in a red light reader? Ah, a trick question. NONE! If it was as easy as screwing in a red light reader then no one would have bothered to upgrade and the projectionists could just do it whenever a cyan print comes along. Regarding my interpretation of the fax, I think you misunderstood me. I know exactly what you are trying to say, but so many of the theaters that have not converted yet will end up reading it in that manner. Wording is crucial if cyan tracks are to go 100%. There's too many stupid people out there making purchasing decisions for theaters. Now when will we see trailers in cyan? If nobody wants to be the first fish in the pond, why, why, why is Dreamworks releasing a feature before trailers? Use the good old fashioned scare tactic. Start releasing trailers for 3 months in MUL format with cyan tracks, then start releasing trailers for the next 3 months with no digital tracks and force theaters to experience the awesomeness of cyan on a white light reader first-hand. If the studios want the conversion to be made, but don't want dark screens because of a lack of dual inventory and misinformed or stupid people, trailers are the only sensible way to approach this.  |  IP: Logged Steve Anderson Expert Film Handler Posts: 168 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Feb 2000 posted 08-07-2003 04:10 PM                        I was on the phone with our local tech and he has been on the road for the last three weeks just doing conversions for the cyan tracks. A lot of small houses out there still run analog only. Our small house just has the Kelmar reverse scan.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-09-2003 05:39 AM                        OK, Ted said: "It is imperative that this release is a successful one." So what makes it successful and more importantly, what happens if it isn't? Seems that exhibition has a pretty powerful hand of cards here. Suppose a big chunk of theatres simply say, "you know what, if you can't give us a film that will play on our projectors, we simply won't play it. Can a studio afford to loose the 20% of their potential net on a release? And suppose a big chain were to say, "If you can;t give us standard prints, we won't even play it on ANY of our screens." Naturally, I don't think this would happen, especially since theatre owners haven't been put up any resistance so far to installing the red scanners. But just theoretically, would it be fair to say that if this 100% cyan print inventory doesn't work out as a positive trial, will that slow the rest of the studios from jumping in the water? Is this going to be a really big title? If it is something every exhibitor will want in every cinema he owns, then if they have to do the install to run it, they might grumble, but they will do it. But a smaller film might not be the one to start with if it is imperative that it be successful. Frank  |  IP: Logged Ted Costas Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Hollywood, CA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 08-11-2003 07:22 PM                     Success = lots of $$ at the box office. Frank, actually, a successful venture in the field of new technology means, 1) That it plays and there are no lost shows, and 2) That the general public has no idea a transition took place. The fate of this film, in technological terms, will undoubtedly influence the other studios as to how many future cyan dye track releases there are in the next year. There is a new press release on the www.dyetracks.org web site right now. As many of you mentioned, there was a mass-fax sent to many theatres on July 17th. The Hollywood Reporter had it's Technology section devoted to this story on July 16th. The DreamWorks Bookers are spreading the word as they speak with theatres. The Film-Tech web site has active discussions on this topic. The word is out. So to answer your question, Frank. Success is measured by the number of voicemails on a Monday morning... and come Monday September 22nd, I'm hoping my voicemail is silent, and that the only things DreamWorks has to worry about, is how much $$ they are making at the box office. Yours, Ted  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 08-11-2003 09:05 PM                    You're a good boy, Teddy -- Mrs. Dolby Do you think the Vegas oddsmakers will take bets as to whether any silver track prints are used in this release (even if brought in from elsewhere)?  |  IP: Logged Joseph Pandolfi Expert Film Handler Posts: 213 From: Milford, CT. Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-11-2003 10:12 PM                     Oh Well!! We are still waiting to have our remaining three exciters (like the one behind me) replaced. I hope the folks at National Amusements know we still have them here.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-13-2003 02:01 PM                     A few weeks ago, over in the Kinoton FP38 Experiences thread, John P. mentioned Jess Daily's evaluation of older prints and red LED readers at UCLA. I followed up asking if it had been published, and resolved to contact Jess myself. I did so, and today I got a copy of the CD with the comparison tests in the mail (there is no written report to-date). Jess has given me permission to reproduce them, so I've put them up on the web. I haven't had a chance to listen myself really, nor to do any interesting comparisions, nor package up the data in a way that's likely useful to most people. Nonetheless, here you can find .WAV files of the 6 tracks, as well as a scan of the artwork of the disc. I expect I'll organize it a bit better later on, but I thought some people might appreciate early access to it now. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-13-2003 02:08 PM                        I note that Jess Daily was very objective and even-handed in his evaluation. He even used Fuji CD-R media: http://web.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/jhawk/cyan/artwork.png  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 08-18-2003 02:06 PM                     If this question has been answered, forgive me. Is there any other Cyan sound track films on the release schedule yet besides the Woody Allen film?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-18-2003 04:12 PM                        Keep an eye on the http://www.dyetracks.org website for the latest updates.  |  IP: Logged Travis Hubrig Expert Film Handler Posts: 175 From: Minot ND, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 02-16-2004 06:01 PM                     John, Do you have any more links on this? It doesn't seem up-to-date...  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-16-2004 07:53 PM                        I don't maintain that website. In January at the ITEA Seminar meeting, I heard more cyan dye track releases should be on their way soon. Likely much more will be announced at the Cyan Dye Track committee meeting at ShoWest. The issue has been how to handle cyan dye track prints being recycled to underdeveloped countries that may still have very few red LED readers. They will not play properly on tungsten (white) light readers, and red LED readers may not be available or even installable. There is also an awareness issue. The committee (especially distributors and reader manufacturers) is looking at a communication plan to get more red LED readers installed.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-17-2004 08:20 AM                        As others have mentioned, any sort of wide-scale use of dye tracks really should start with trailers, not features. The consequences of having a trailer with an unplayable track are minimal (the trailer doesn't get shown), while the consequences of having a feature with an unplayable track are great (the feature doesn't get shown, the theatre gives out refunds, and customers become unhappy). Not everyone is using equipment for which an upgrade kit is available and many of us who would like to experiment with that equipment don't have access to sample film with a dye track. Unless dye-track trailers or test films are made available, there will be no way to tell for sure that any homebrew system will work. Having dye-track trailers in circulation for a year or so before wide-scale introduction of dye tracks on features will help to ease the transition and reduce (but not eliminate) the chances of a theatre ending up with an unplayable print. I tend to agree with those who think that this is a bad idea, partly because I trust Steve G. and others who say that the sound quality isn't as good as with silver tracks, and partly because I see lots of exciters in use which work just fine, often in theatres where an LED conversion would be a financial hardship. I have great respect for the technical work that was done on dye tracks, but I think that those who are involved with the implementation may be out of touch with the realities that independent exhibitors face.  |  IP: Logged Peter Mork Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Newton, MA, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-17-2004 12:16 PM                     Good points, Scott. But I bet that trailers will be the LAST domino to fall in the chain. I often get the impression that the distribs care more about how trailers are presented than they do about the features. (Recall a few years ago there was a move afoot to standardize the volume level on trailers so they wouldn't play too loud? Well they sure nipped that one in the bud .)  |  IP: Logged Ted Costas Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Hollywood, CA, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 02-17-2004 06:24 PM                     Peter, You are probably correct about trailers being the last to go cyan. The point is to make a smooth industry switch. Trailers would not help. Theatres won't convert for a cyan trailer. And for features... By the way Peter, TASA has been going quite will since June of 1999 when the Trailer Audio Standards Association became the law. The MPAA has been enforcing an upper volume (average) limit since then. It started at 87 dB in 1999, and has moved to 86 dB, and currently it is at 85 dB. It was not nipped in the bud, it bloomed into a success that won a Technical Achievement Academy Award to two fellows from Dolby, and a very nice chap from Disney. And TASA started because of the effect loud trailers had on features. Everyone wants their trailer to play well, nobody goes to see trailers (yes, rare exceptions to this rule there are), they pay for the features. To everyone else, NATO estimates that 85% of their screens are red-light ready. Word on the street says that the US is about 65% red-light ready. Without product it will never get any higher than that. I am hoping you'll be hearing several announcements, did I say "several", why yes I did, from the studios, by ShoWest, regarding the move to Cyan for analog soundtracks. And if you check the website you won't see anything yet... soon... so keep your fingers crossed. Give me cyan, or give me death. Can I get an "Amen", Ted  |  IP: Logged

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