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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Cyan Tracks (Page 11)

 
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Author Topic: Cyan Tracks
Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 07-24-2003 08:52 AM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Heck if nothing else deliver the prints on Wednesdays so theaters don't have to blow their payroll on Thursday nights as the projection staff frantically tries to throw together a bunch of prints! It just seems the studios could do something in return. It certainly isn't making better movies.
Good idea, but then the studios and distributors would have to overcome their piracy paranoia. They probably think that all the people in the cinema would videotape and publish the prints on the net if they had more time It would be much better if there was more time to make up and QC prints in the theatre. But the development goes into the opposite direction: the prints arrive later and later. When the couriers also arrive later than scheduled (as nearly always), then we have employees sitting around and waiting for the prints to arrive, often enough in the early morning hours when there is no time anymore to screen them. If there is a quality problem, then we have to contact the distributors on Friday, then the weekend comes etcetcetc.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

- posted 07-24-2003 09:13 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael wrote:

quote:

They probably think that all the people in the cinema would videotape and publish the prints on the net if they had more time
Do you mean your local cinemas don't all have Cintel Mk. 3 telecines burried away in the basement somewhere for running off thousands of copies of pirate tapes? What an odd idea!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 07-24-2003 11:16 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I will doubt you will see earlier deliveries and it has very little to do with piracy issues it is the fact that the prints usually are not ready on wed for a friday opening
Often it is late monday that that the final printing elements arrive at a lab to be printed.
You also need to rememebr that a lab is not just printing one customers material but other release prints as well as processing camera negatives printing dailies and sound negative as well as maintance of the equipment
The economic decision to have such tight timelines is typical of the whole filmmaking process and theatres just have to accept that or they could if they want to commit the ecconomic suicide of have a policy of refusing product if not delivered before a certain pre playdate time. I doubt any of the studios would even blink if even a large number of theatres said so. All one has to do is look at the effect of a major circuit refuseing a studio's product has anyone ever seen the studio go begging
The end of the equation is that the theatre is the last item on the food chain before video release

And on the ater issue the company that photetchs my circuitt boards uses similar chemstry as film processing and he said that water was the single biggest expense (greater than labour) for his business and the meeting of Ontario's antipollution laws re water effulent. And remeber the worlds second largest film lab operates here and has the same water issues to face and there is talk of that getting even tougher

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 07-24-2003 12:32 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In another thread, Steve Guttag said:

quote:
The tracks that were offensive were normally color applicated tracks, I believe...and which ones were more offensive could not be predicted. There was one reported with a density track that was considered to be unplayable with the red reader but quite fine with the IR reader. I don't have the specifics on the color of the density track though I don't think it was a B&W.
quote:
While I haven't heard the unplayable film myself, I have heard a wide variety of conventional films from the '80s that sounded horrible with red but pleasing with IR...the red reader exhibited XM distortion that kinda sounds like clipping in a harsh manner.
Even though you yourself haven't heard the problematic old tracks, your description is in line with the supposition that the old tracks were printed with cross-modulation distortion optimized for the old tungsten readers, and you are hearing the expected XM distortion difference. That's why "high magenta" prints are recommended for better compatibility with the mix of readers out there now.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

- posted 07-24-2003 01:15 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, what type of reader would be the best to install today in a theatre which needs to play all types of analogue optical tracks, VD and VA, silver only on black and white and Technicolor IB prints, conventional cyan + magenta + dye, high magenta and cyan?

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

- posted 07-24-2003 01:15 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, what type of reader would be the best to install today in a theatre which needs to play all types of analogue optical tracks, VD and VA, silver only on black and white and Technicolor IB prints, conventional cyan + magenta + dye, high magenta and cyan?

There are theatres today which run more black and white films than colour, so compatibility is a major issue for them.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 07-24-2003 01:27 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The BACP readers have pluginLED assemblies so you could just plug in and change formats

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 07-24-2003 03:23 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep. As Gordon suggests, and Steve Guttag does, switching between IR and red LEDs is probably the best option when you have to handle old tracks optimized for different readers. With tens of thousands of red LEDs already installed in theatres, it's not likely the movie industry is going back to tungsten exciter lamps or IR LEDs as representative of modern practice.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 07-24-2003 04:37 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems within the realm of possibility that XM distortion can be corrected for [digitally?]. Is there any work in that space?

John P., do you have any information with regards to my query above about whether we are at 100% high magenta now?

--jhawk

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 07-24-2003 04:57 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Only problem with switching between red and IR is the focus issue. That will involve a tech for an A-chain every time the two light sources are switched. For convenience in switching though, the BACP can't be beat.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 07-24-2003 05:13 PM      Profile for Carl Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Carl Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Large print runs have become a "fact of life" for any major release.
in recent times, yes. but conventional track were even more so a fact of life. the conversion to cyan tracks is all about changing something that is a fact of life. smaller print runs would help ameliorate many of the environmental problems that cyan tracks do. and prints would look better. most often when i am really wowed by the look of a film print it is a (non-"major") release with very few prints made. struck off the negative, no doubt.

carl

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 07-24-2003 05:44 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This may be a dumb question, but if everyone is so interested in reducing water use, why doesn't someone come up with a way to "clean" the water, and reuse it. Then there would be NO (or very little) water useage?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 07-24-2003 06:00 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not a "dumb" question. Yes there are techniques (distillation, reverse osmosis), but for the volumes of water involved, not practical or cost-effective. "Source Reduction" and conservation are usually the best.

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 07-24-2003 06:16 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, it's a case of the labs (and others with a vested interest) evading the "costs" by passing them on to the theatres in the form of having to buy equipment.

There are MANY BIGGER water users that have cleaned up water AND controlled costs.

BTW: I'm not in favor or against cyan as John suggested. I'm pretty much in the same camp as Steve and Brad... show me.

And John, your "most" still speaks what YOU think...others ***may*** think different and have different reasons.

>>> Phil

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 07-24-2003 06:48 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce's question was whether the soundtrack developer wash water could be purified to the point it could be reused in the process without causing an adverse photographic effect. The answer is no, not cost-effectively. The labs have already "cleaned up water" to meet all their local regulations to put it down the drain for municipal treatment.

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