Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Part 2

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Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Part 2

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-17-2009 12:42 PM

quote: Barry Floyd
I normally cut the tail off of the first feature, but like Brad mentioned I do leave at least one blue band ID frame on the tail.

I was being sarcastic towards all of those whiners who can't build a print without their ID frame crutch. Cutting a frame of the rating band is about as useful as those dorks who leave the first frame of the green band on the leader from the attached trailer. [Roll Eyes]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2009 12:56 PM

Brad--I actually do a rating band frame left on the R1 head leader to be useful at times, as it proves that the leader was cut in frame. You'd be amazed at how many times I've seen a leader on the first reel of the feature that is cut out of frame. Sure, it only takes a few seconds to verify this, but sometimes those seconds are precious if the print arrives a few minutes before the show.

I agree that it is useless for identification, however.

If you are going to rant about stupid ID frame practices, please direct your anger toward the real morons--the people who cannot properly cut a fade-in or fade-out that occurs at the beginning or end of a reel.

As for art-houses, my experience has been that their operators are either really good or really bad; unfortunately, most prints will pass through a "really bad" house at some point, often when they are brand new.

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Justin Gorka
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 174
From: High Wycombe, England
Registered: Apr 2006

posted 03-17-2009 12:56 PM

Being in the UK we often get "treated" 2nd hand pints from the US. These are invariably scratched and even the cue's have been treated......Film Guard cures everything syndrome?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-17-2009 01:05 PM

Even with prints that I receive with tail leads whacked off, their is cue tape place at the needed areas.

I think it just comes down to minimual "booth monkey" training: all tail leads needs to be whacked off-including the last reel.

Funny is, when I do my 1st reel stuff, I don't whack into the rating tag. I whack way up three frames past the last number on the lead and let the film do the changeover.

Splicing into the rating tag, IMO, is like cutting into a fadein/fadeout changeover for most of the time when that splice goes through from black then a sudden green with the noticable splice, it looks like a mischange.

On trailers, I whack the head lead off the trailer four frames before the rating tag so I'm splicing into the black at all times.

I try, as possible, to present filmwork as if it was seen being played from a DVD: smooth and not noticable.

-Monte

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2009 02:43 PM

quote: Frank Angel
(yeah, mine too, Martin) So I guess that would make all of these also operations here in NYC alone; let's see....there's

I don't know what's going on in the rest of the country, but down here Carmike tends to use art films as filler for the one 35mm screen they keep in their converted to digital theatres. Thats all most a guarantee the print will get screwed up. The print of Milk we are running came directly from the local Carmike. It is in near mint condition except for odd markings through out the film. I don't know what the marks are, they look like light sprocket marks in the middle of the film. I don't think they are sprocket marks (I haven't inspected the film myself) because there are two close rows that run down the center of the film and don't veer off when they disappear. Look more like something dripped on the film.

Whatever, as the Major's art branched put more of their product into the multiplexes, I expect more damage to art films.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-17-2009 04:02 PM

quote: Justin Gorka
Being in the UK we often get "treated" 2nd hand pints from the US. These are invariably scratched and even the cue's have been treated......Film Guard cures everything syndrome?

I'm missing something...are you saying they've been treated with FG or treated with Photoguard or the like? Or are you saying you use FG?

FG is useless on a Photoguarded print. In fact, the whole Photoguard process is just a way to get more money out of the distributors. It locks in everything...dirt...tape...fingerprints...just a complete waste of chemicals and resources.

[thumbsdown]

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 03-17-2009 05:48 PM

quote: Justin Gorka
in the UK we often get "treated" 2nd hand pints from the US.

The economic slowdown has obviously had a much bigger impact than I originally thought in the UK, second hand US beer? [puke]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2009 05:57 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
Also, who cuts the tail leader off of the end of the print? WTF? Why?

In our Ultra-Stereo days, the system would default back to reading the soundtrack area after a certain amount of time. I would put the show-end cue on the film, it would run fine, but then if there was any garbage on the soundtrack area after about 7 seconds past that cue, it would all come ripping thru the speakers. So I got into the habit of cutting off the tail leader attaching a long strip of junk-film to the end. The show-end cue goes at the head of the junk-film. We're on Dolby Digital now but I've always kept the practice up, since it's a bit faster and easier than having to cut (and later, peel) a cue on the tail end.

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John Koutsoumis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 261
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-17-2009 06:31 PM

We also have had lots of used prints that have been photoguarded or whatever they use. 5 prints out of 8 recently [Frown]

. The poor film cleaner is almost becoming non-useful tool. But this week we are seeing some new prints arrive and non-treated used prints [Smile]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-17-2009 06:54 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
sometimes those seconds are precious if the print arrives a few minutes before the show.

When does this happen? Why does this happen? You need to tell whoever is in charge of this to get their head out of their ass and get their print there at least 12 hours prior to the first show, worst case. Anyway, I think the audience can afford to wait 5 or 6 extra seconds.

quote: Mike Blakesley
the system would default back to reading the soundtrack area after a certain amount of time.

What?? Why?? Did the Ultra*Stereo think that Non-sync should only ever be engaged for 7 or 8 seconds? Or is your automation all wonky? I am betting it is the latter, because I have never had an Ultra*Stereo randomly switch from Non-Sync into a film format without being told to. Solution: Get better automation.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-17-2009 07:03 PM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Funny is, when I do my 1st reel stuff, I don't whack into the rating tag. I whack way up three frames past the last number on the lead and let the film do the changeover.

Splicing into the rating tag, IMO, is like cutting into a fadein/fadeout changeover for most of the time when that splice goes through from black then a sudden green with the noticable splice, it looks like a mischange.

Thank you. THAT is how it is supposed to be done. Seeing splicing tape lines on the first image of a green band looks like ass.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2009 07:48 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
Or is your automation all wonky? I am betting it is the latter, because I have never had an Ultra*Stereo randomly switch from Non-Sync into a film format without being told to.

I think the automation was probably at fault, actually, but it doesn't do the same thing with the Dolby CP650...maybe it was a DTS thing. I have always wanted to get a fancier slam-bang automation that would do more cool things, but I'm saving the money for digital.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-17-2009 10:21 PM

quote: Brad Miller
Seeing splicing tape lines on the first image of a green band looks like ass.

Agreed, completely. But if you aren't actually going to show the attrached trailer (i.e. it's junk, anyway), why not leave the reference frame? The next guy can always remove it.

quote: Joe Redifer
When does this happen? Why does this happen? You need to tell whoever is in charge of this to get their head out of their ass and get their print there at least 12 hours prior to the first show, worst case. Anyway, I think the audience can afford to wait 5 or 6 extra seconds.

This generally happens at venues that aren't in the business of full-time motion-picture exhibition and whose employees tend to be on the nice-but-clueless end of things. They call me ahead of time. I show up an hour before showtime. The person in charge doesn't show up on time, can't find the print, can't find keys to the building/booth, or is generally clueless. Usually, I get into the booth and start working on the print about fifteen minutes later.

At that point, I have about forty-five minutes to inspect/repair as much of the print as possible, clean up whatever mess someone else left in the booth, set some wacky and invariably non-automated masking system, maybe set up a microphone or two, thread the projectors, and generally get ready for the show. Seconds count here.

I can only complain or demand so much without becoming sufficiently annoying that the venues in question (usually b colleges or festivals) would consider switching to video exhibition. This would not be in anyone's interest.

Showing up earlier is generally not an option because either my schedule or their schedule does not allow it. There aren't many projectionists who are available to do these sorts of shows, so I end up doing quite a few of them, simply because no one else is available.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 03-17-2009 11:35 PM

What happens if you die in an excruciatingly painful car accident? I should kidnap you and hold you for ransom. Those b-rate community colleges would pay out the nose!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-18-2009 03:39 AM

quote: Scott Norwood
Agreed, completely. But if you aren't actually going to show the attrached trailer (i.e. it's junk, anyway), why not leave the reference frame? The next guy can always remove it.

Because that next guy might be a changeover house and might accidentally show that frame on screen at the start of the show. Leaving it would then make more work for him. [Big Grin]

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