my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Part 2 (Page 38)

This topic comprises 51 pages: 1  2  3  ...  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  ...  49  50  51

Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Part 2 Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-20-2010 06:10 AM                     RP40 does not specify either, nor should it. RP40 only specifies the target for the film it discusses. The other issue is, if you have masking, do you set your masking (talking about the 1.85 ratio for the moment) to .446 x .825 or do you set your masking such that your aperture plate never reveals more than .446 x .825 (so if you were to pull your masking away, you never revel more than .446 x .825. I claim, the image size is only defined for .446 x .825...that is the MAXIMUM projectable image size...anything beyond those dimensions do not have to be a suitable image...including boom mics, time codes, guard bands (lines)...etc. Furthermore, any excess image should be used to ensure that jump and weave are completely hidden. As for image on the masking...that really is determined by the lamphouse/reflector, lens and aperture to film-plane of the projector...it isn't really a user controllable criteria (presuming one cuts the plate until they just hide all of the shadow on the masking). Furthermore, for SMPTE to define shadow on the masking, the masking's absorption would need to be defined. The material most use (duvetyne) pretty much sucks after the 1st year...it starts turning gray and shrinks...I can clearly see the image on it. Personally, I find seeing a lot of image on the masking much more distracting than seeing some shadow. Masking should square up the corners and hide any raggedness of the aperture and, if possible, hide the shadow of the aperture plate. This is an area where DCinema clearly wins! Also 70mm has VERY thin aperture shadows owing to their typically long focal length lenses. Steve  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 01-20-2010 08:52 AM                        Steve is right. However, several museum quality jobs over the years have specified 6" overlap all the way around onto the masking. These were sizeable screens, though. I agree that you cannot reveal more then the spec, since there is a lot out there that you don't even want projected onto dusty (reflective) masking. Louis  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-20-2010 11:53 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag As for image on the masking...that really is determined by the lamphouse/reflector, lens and aperture to film-plane of the projector...it isn't really a user controllable criteria And since Steve mistakenly forgot to point it out, that is why you can get a MUCH sharper edge on a Christie projector as opposed to a Kinoton.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-20-2010 12:18 PM                        So, to summarize, the Steve-Louis-Brad recommended method of cutting plates and setting masking stops is as follows: - align lamphouse relative to projector, and roughly align reflector without installing lens - center lens eccentric (Century and 35/70 projectors only) - set focus knob to center position - install scope lens - install scope aperture plate - run white light and tweak lamp alignment - run RP40 (err...35PA) - focus anamorphic - set focus ring on lens collar (or as appropriate depending upon lens mount) - center image on screen (using offset lens collars or other methods as necessary) - open masking completely - file aperture plate until edges of frame are just barely visible - run white light on screen - bring masking in until masking just covers aperture shadow - set scope masking stop - repeat for 1.85, 1.66, Academy, 70mm and other formats as needed, setting masking stops for each - repeat for additional projector(s) Is this more-or-less correct? (I am making the assumption that the projector is either new or rebuilt and that the intermittent sprocket, gate, and trap are already in proper alignment. I am also making the assumption that the projector in question is not a Norelco, which I am told requires that 70mm be the first format to be aligned.)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-20-2010 12:28 PM                     ...and an aperture file and an aperture stone....need those as well.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-22-2010 11:17 AM                        Throw out the duvetyne; it sucks at absorbing light and as Steve says, it fades. You want to use black satin instead -- this stuff is like a freakin black hole. Nothing shows up on it, and an additional, welcome characteristic -- it is lightweight. Your rigging doesn't need to hold an elephant. It allows you to use nice little short-cuts like being able to attach the track directly to the screen frame and to use a really light-weight track like the ADC's Specifine 1000 series. Plus, it's a piece of cake to work with. And the black never fades. Good stuff; I believe it's a bit more expensive that your standard duvetyne or velour (at least the light-weight velour) but I think it is well worth it. One last little finishing touch not mentioned in the now pretty complete list everyone has come up with on how to cut plates -- when cutting for dual projectors in C/O operation, you want to be sure to mark the plates as to Projector 1 and Projector 2. Without clear markings, they could easily get mixed up and all the precise filing will be for naught, at least for the first show until you can change them back to the correct projectors. I go one further; I color-code the plates for each aspect ratio. First I use a single wrap of color electrical tape around the lens barrel so that when the lens is seated in the head, the color is visible. Then I paint the bakelite handle of the matching plate with the same color. The Simplex plate handles have a round indentation in the middle of the plate, so even though the handle is painted Yellow for 1.85, for example, there is a Black dot in the center of the handle for Projector 1 and a White dot in the center of the handle for Projector 2. Someone would have to have the IQ of a house plant to not match the correct plate with the correct lens. I use plastic model kit paint -- it holds up well in the heat and retains the color for years.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-22-2010 11:57 AM                     Scott, Some notes... You should ALWAYS run PA35 with the 1.85 lens (whichever non-anamorphic is the widest in the auditorium) to precisely level the projector...THEN start working on the anamorphic. This prevents the anamorphic movies from being skewed. Even just a "letterboxed scope ratio" flat trailer works quite nicely for this...no need to wear out your expensive PA35 loop. Also before you decide the anamorphic is level, be sure to run a loop of a "flat matted/pillarboxed" trailer. That is what the customers will see. Often on changeover setups what appears to be level on the PA35 will look skewed to the viewers. This is why measuring the center horizontal line to the bottom of the screen or floor is a good time waster. In the end you must make it LOOK right, even if you have that line intentionally skewed an inch or two off. Just make it so that the pillarbox lines appear as parallel to the side masking as possible (within reason, there are situations with excessive keystoning that you may have to make a compromise). The fine alignment (preferably laser) of the lamphouse/reflector must be done before you start working with the lenses too. Adjusting that later will destroy everything. When centering the PA35 on screen for dual projector setups, do NOT use a piece of tape on the screen/masking to denote the "centerline". That is just silly. In real life, the left projector will keystone towards the right and vice versa. Use the exterior lines to center the image post-keystoning. Otherwise you will be unnecessarily cropping on the opposite side of the alternating projector. When setting the anamorphic, be sure and throw the astigmatism way out of focus to an extreme (whichever end is the blurriest), then set your projector focus on the horizontal lines, then bring the astigmatism adjustment into focus. Don't forget your binoculars! Also shimming is sometimes needed of the lenses, lens mount or gate depending on the keystoning of the projector. A well designed turret like the Christie makes it incredibly easy to achieve absolute perfect focus in all 4 corners, even with fast lenses, regardless of the angle, but it can be done on single barrel systems. (Do note not all turrets are alike. For example the Kinoton turret is just flat out awful to setup and fine tune.) Again, don't forget your binoculars or a telescope for this. What looks in focus to you isn't necessarily what the audience sees. Align ALL lenses to be used in the projector BEFORE cutting the first plate. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for less-than-ideal end results. You should be able to leave a loop running and with no aperture, swap-out every lens multiple times (and even switch between 35mm and 70mm) without having any need to touch the focus control OR framing knob. If you can't, you have failed. Try again until you get it. Bear in mind once you think you have it down, don't start filing yet! Leave each lens in there for a few minutes to let it heat up and then see how it looks. ALL of this must be done before the first aperture is filed. Remember, the time spent (or not spent) on the initial install will affect EVERY performance that auditorium will present in the future.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 01-23-2010 12:03 PM                     A bit off-topic, but the more distance between the film and the aperture plate, the more aperture shadow seen. The Ernamann 15, when used with the felt-lined gate bands really increase this distance, resulting in a wide shadow. One customer I work for has their own bands made to reduce this shadow.  |  IP: Logged Jarret Chessell Master Film Handler Posts: 288 From: London, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jan 2009 posted 01-23-2010 11:43 PM                     and.... if you do a really crappy hack job of filing your aperture plates when they are far away from the film it really looks like ass on the masking ... not that i would know or anything.... just saying... *cough*  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Jorgenson Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1002 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: Feb 2005 posted 01-28-2010 07:54 PM                        Whoever most recently broke down print #0348 of The Young Victoria sucks a LOT! Looks like s/he used a razor blade to cut the reels apart, on an angle, over the length of about 3 frames and only in the general vicinity of the original splice (a couple feet before/after every reel change). The print itself looked rather good on screen, so whoever assembled it and ran it did a good job, but the break down was just ridiculous!  |  IP: Logged Manny Montes Master Film Handler Posts: 270 From: United States Registered: Feb 2010 posted 02-11-2010 07:57 PM                     Whoever had print #0325 of Nine broke it down terribly. First of all, smudges all over the print, did they run it through their fingers the entire time? while eating fast food? Second of all, tons of yellow zebra splices in the middle of the reels (clear tape was invented for a reason). Seems as if they dropped it on the floor too, it's very dirty Third, platter scratches galore and slight stretching of the film. and finally, masking tape attaching the Tail/Head to the film, leaving great residue all over the film. Running it through some film-guard tonight to see how it looks after, if its still poor, then I'll be calling for a replacement print tomorrow. Also, the rating tag at the end was completely removed? And when I went to lift the film can the riveted lock part popped off and the can broke in two. Not a good day  |  IP: Logged Thomas Pitt Master Film Handler Posts: 266 From: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Registered: May 2007 posted 02-25-2010 07:56 AM                     My local cinema (VUE Leeds Light) managed to get diagonal (platter?) scratches all over their brand new print of Solomon Kane. All through the movie, there were black diagonal lines flashing on the right hand side of the screen, though only really noticeable in bright scenes. I know that one mis-thread or incorrect build-up can scar the print for life, but the amount of scratches was incredible! It looked like it was being scratched every time it had run through the projector (I'm guessing around 12 times by the time I saw it)! I'd be inclined to think they got a bad second-hand print, but the advert and trailer reel was also affected by these scratches...  |  IP: Logged Dan Crittenden Film Handler Posts: 11 From: Calgary, AB, Canada Registered: Dec 2009 posted 02-26-2010 05:56 PM                     Manny, if the rating snipe at the end was completely removed, the print may have run in Canada. Because the ratings for films are different not only from the US, but often vary across provinces. As a result, Canadian theaters cannot show the rating that's attached to the print and need to remove them completely.  |  IP: Logged Manny Montes Master Film Handler Posts: 270 From: United States Registered: Feb 2010 posted 02-26-2010 08:21 PM                     ah, never knew that. Still would have been nice to leave it in the can for us yankees  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-26-2010 11:33 PM                        The theatre posts the Ratings for each film at the box office; they post the Ratings in the newspaper ads; Ratings are announced in the telephone movie hotlines. By the time the customers have paid for their tickets and are sitting in their seat ready to watch the movie, they either know what the Rating is, or they don't care. Certainly they are not going to run out of the theatre in horror and wanting their money back because they see the Ratings tag AFTER the movie is over. The idea of needing to show it AFTER the movie really seriously begs rationality. So, what I am saying, Manny, is the world won't slip off it's axis if your presentation doesn't include the Rating snipe after the film. If it's one of those rarities where the Rating snip appears at the BEGINNING of the film, well that anti-presentation making nonsense is what splicers are made for. There is also quite a good thread you might search for about whether or not to use Rating snipes on trailers. The majority seem to favor them, I am in the minority -- I think trailers of the same Rating level need only have to have one before the first snipe. Ideally I would love to have Ratings snipes that said "The Following TrailerS are Rated ?" You would only need one before any group where the level is all the same, not between each and every trailer. For people who don't like to watch trailers (many) the redundency of the Rating snipe just calls more attention to them. Plus, they are always WAY to long for "read time," How long does it take to read the letter [R] or [PG-13]? But that's just me. And you already know what I think about putting a Rating snipe on the main feature -- at either end.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 51 pages: 1  2  3  ...  35  36  37  38  39  40  41  ...  49  50  51

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.