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Author
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Topic: HATEFUL EIGHT 70mm - all discussion
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-09-2015 05:26 PM
Thanks Jim. Definitely interesting.
It appears they took the latest green Christie rollers and basically did a clone of the inboard side on both sides. (This permits the roller to fit on the 35mm shafts.) I hope they are training such NOT to run your literal fingers between the brain rollers when threading and ONLY sliding the film between them. That bad practice would cause the black Christie rollers (which also used the 35mm shafts) to wobble and then you have the film bouncing bad enough to kill dts timecode tracking or literally have the film ride itself right up and out of the brain. I understand why they did it (to make the conversion super simple and cheap), but the tiny extra cost to replace the shafts with longer ones to prevent wobbling should've been trivial (only a few bucks a system) when making in bulk.
Good to see they at least have the later design angled stripper rollers and the payout arm fingers/wishbone of the latest model, BUT that won't stop scratching if anyone starts to have curl develop! (See my videos above and imagine film with that degree of curling making it through the payout arm or the fixed stripper rollers without laying scratches down the center of the film and you will agree.)
I guess they didn't like my modification to spread those fingers out a little bit or widen the outer parts of both to help protect from curl scratching when they manufactured those parts. It would've helped substantially.
Was the test roll sent emulsion in or out? The film will naturally want to bow outward, so the middle of the film that cups outward from being flat will need to be wound toward the center ring to help keep it flat. Typically this means winding emulsion out. BLSI are big Kinoton guys and Kinoton is an emulsion in company, so I'm wondering if that is how the prints are coming and people being trained.
Similarly when pulling the film from the brain to the first roller on the column, I saw some pics this morning where the film was being twisted such that the top of the film was being twisted toward the operator (like a Kinoton). That is definitely not correct for an AW3, as first off it puts extra unnecessary twist on the film, but more importantly that makes it so the film can slide out of the roller bracket if the bracket isn't perfectly aligned. Since the little white "keeper" pins BLSI manufactured on that picture I saw were not of normal Christie size, they won't really hold the film onto the roller in such a scenario of the bracket being a little out of alignment. This is because threading with top edge of the film toward the tree keeps the bottom edge of the film "pressing downward" against the outboard flange of the roller, meaning even if the roller is a bit off alignment, it won't come off the roller. Hopefully that was just a misthread I saw and not official training. (Jim's picture just above my post is the correct twist, BTW.)
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Mike Babb
Master Film Handler
Posts: 250
From: Norwich UK
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 12-09-2015 06:45 PM
Hey guys,
i've been reading this topic with interest and occasional annoyance. It's important to start by saying I don't speak for anyone except myself but it seems like some people are predisposed to assume things are going to go poorly and predict how. I respect the amount of experience in this forum, and have benefited from reading on this topic and many others over the years. I have the experience to know many points are on target. And I share concerns and do my best to address them. Debating PTR rollers or platter static or timing is fine. Attributing any intention to make this project go badly to people involved in my opinion is out of line.
Chapin, Larry and BLS have balls of steel for taking on this monumental project. I'm happy to be included, as well as a member of my staff, and many of my good friends in the industry. I think what annoyed me was the suggestion that anyone has anything but the best intentions for the quality presentation of this film and the quality of the installations. There have been and still remain many challenges. We all know them, the film tech commenters and the people on the inside. Give us the benefit of the doubt. Sam Chavez, Clyde McKinney, Larry Shaw, Chapin Cutler, Paul Pearson, Michael Schaffer...these are some of the names among many many others helping to make this a reality.
"Given the fact at least some of the people responsible for the release of The Hateful Eight know better, and would have been best advised to bring experts like Brad Miller into the loop, but refused to do so, more and more I'm thinking this "biggest 70mm release in over 20 years" is really going to be a subversive act of sabotage meant to make film look bad and have everything go digital only once and for all."
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-09-2015 06:53 PM
Mike, I think you are reading too much into this thread. The point is everyone here are true lovers of film and I think I speak for everyone when I say we want this to go wonderfully and for film, and specifically 70mm, to make a comeback as an exhibition format. However the overall jest of the discussions here is that this really CANNOT FAIL or film WILL be dead as an exhibition medium.
That's where you are seeing any annoyance/anger/grumblings come from because deep down we all want this to succeed, but there are realists out there (myself included). As such when someone DOES make a blatant mistake in the master plan, that affects everyone here, even if it is just someone like Bobby who is an avid film lover but has nothing to do with the setup and exhibition, it hurts.
Nobody said anyone involved didn't have balls of steel, but keep in mind BLSI is also being compensated "gloriously" and VERY MUCH financially for this work. While many items here are opinions being discussed, that doesn't change the fact that some decisions were just flat out wrong. The biggest design mistake that comes to mind is not issuing Safety Rings...and keep in mind I offered to make them at cost to see this project succeed, meaning I had zero financial interest in making a buck. Sure making a small production run for just this thing at this point would've been more expensive than when I made them in bulk many years ago, but at an estimated $150/screen cost...really??? Compare that to the overall cost of each system for the guarantee that no tail wrap or thrown print could occur and you tell me that wasn't a decision NOT in the best interest of this succeeding.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-09-2015 08:55 PM
Seeing as how my quote was brought up, I'll respond to that.
I'll admit that maybe I'm being a bit unfair with conspiracy theories of people intentionally setting up this 70mm release to fail. But I do bring that up because there definitely is a contingent of digital fanboys who at least talk as if they want film dead, buried and put into the distant past. This high profile Ultra Panavision 70mm release would be the perfect opportunity to, once and for all, put the movie industry on a film-free path if this 70mm release is a debacle.
I don't think anyone in this forum is being unfair at all by saying a number of bad calls were made.
I would start with the Weinstein Co. for choosing to release The Hateful Eight only 7 days after Star Wars. That alone was a really bad choice. The Hateful Eight, presented in Ultra Panavision 70mm, is the kind of movie that needs every giant sized screen it can book. Unfortunately Star Wars has a monopoly on most of those screens for at least a month solid. Everyone knew when this new Star Wars movie was being released. So why did they force The Hateful Eight into that schedule anyway? Were they just hoping things would work out somehow on a wing and prayer? Or was it just a combination of some super huge egos not thinking ahead?
Because Weinstein and maybe even QT insisted on a Christmas Day release, this 70mm Ultra Panavision movie is going to be playing on a lot of ordinary multiplex screens not even worthy of 70mm, missing lots of other bigger screens that would have been better for 70mm shows, and missing entire movie-going markets that could have used at least one 70mm engagement. I hope I'm wrong, but if the Dallas-Fort Worth market (with a population of nearly 7 million people) winds up not getting a single 70mm print that alone will be an idiotic travesty.
If they had really chose to follow a true "road show" format release, this 70mm release could have been platformed out from an initial New York and Los Angeles premiere and gradually expand to other markets, cover the markets more evenly, and actually make it easier to do the 70mm release correctly!
January and April both tend to be movie-going wastelands where big studios tend to shove their turd-quality product into theaters before the Summer movie season frenzy. The Hateful Eight could have taken big advantage of that.
26 years ago, Robert Harris' restored Director's Cut of Lawrence of Arabia was released in theaters in 70mm Dolby SR during that kind of pre-summer time frame. It had no problem getting big screens like the Ziegfield in Manhattan and keeping it on into May.
Obviously Brad has covered all the technical points.
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