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Author
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Topic: HATEFUL EIGHT 70mm - all discussion
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-08-2016 11:34 AM
Buck, that was a new thing for me. I had never done any sort of color coding before on the rollers before. Historically when I've trained people on 70mm before I simply made sure the leader had a black "soundtrack" line drawn down the outboard edge of the leader so the entire process was very familiar to them. The "soundtrack line" is super easy to mark by positioning a Sharpie marker on a bracket lightly pressing into the soundtrack area of the leader next to a roller, then just turn the projector motor on to draw that line.
Since every 35mm projectionist understands "soundtrack edge", that has always been more than sufficient to prevent "ERUTREVO" threading mistakes in 70mm. However since BLSI made up special red/green leaders for this release instead of a soundtrack line, I just went with it, right down to putting little strips of red and green tape on the top of the dts reader and in the soundhead just above the failsafe. Color coding the platter rollers was simply a way to foolproof anyone running the shows that had not ran 70mm in recent years (which was most of them) and was nothing more than 1/2 inch red and green electrical tape.
While yes I know historically 70mm has no "soundtrack edge" (since 3 channels of magnetic audio are on each edge), ever since dts70 came around it actually DOES have a soundtrack edge just like 35mm.
I chose electrical tape because it removes easily in the event the equipment is relocated to a different auditorium/theater and the threading orientation changed. That way the marks were in no way permanent.
Yeah those markings were overkill and unnecessary for most everyone running our screens, but the possibility that an operator could get sick and we would have to call in a backup that had not ran that particular site, it just made sense to mark them all. It only took maybe 5 minutes max per site to do. (Frustratingly it did however take us probably 15-20 minutes per site to rub off the red and green scribble marks all over the edges of the rollers from the installers that marked some of the rollers backwards. I wish they had used electrical tape, as whatever they used did not come off easily and it was fresh at the time.)
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-08-2016 11:43 AM
Yup, that was a BLSI design. Someone directly linked to the project like Michael Schaffer (who I think still lurks around here from time to time) could explain in more detail, but essentially BLSI ditched all of the original Century projector motors and installed new 3 phase motors with power inverters on them, which was a great decision. It wasn't an "automation" of any sort really, just a way to start and stop the motor. They did however loop the failsafe (which did not read cues, just triggered when the film tailed out) and a homebrew tension roller on the platter into the inverter, so if either tripped it would open the lamphouse interlock circuit to kill the lamp and stop the motor. Very simple, nothing fancy, but it did the core job.
We did however remove all of those homebrew tension failsafes from our screens (along with the silly PTRs). We didn't unwire the tension rollers, but I saw too much potential for scratching on the tension roller bracket and there were occasional issues with them triggering when they shouldn't. It would have been impossible for our sites to have had a brain wrap, tail wrap or a thrown print anyway since we were all running FilmGuard and had platter safety rings...so I just removed them from the platters.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-08-2016 01:06 PM
I might have missed some product out there, but Neumade had a pretty good concept. It was a weighted roller on a vertical pulley (similar to a SPECO platter's takeup). Basically when the payout tension became greater than the weight of that roller which moved up and down, the roller would lift up off of the microswitch and still have about 8 feet of film that could continue to be pulled while the projector was ramping down.
SPECO integrated this design into their LP-271 platter, but the elevator was quite short so it only bought a few feet of ramp down damage.
Most other failsafe tension systems were nothing more than a roller on a hinge that lifted up an inch, so by the time it lifted up, damage that had already occurred was permitted to get worse as the system slowed down to a stop. That's what the BLSI/Weinstein contraption was. Getting the springs on those just right is also difficult, whereas Neumade's concept of simply changing the weight of the tension/accumulator roller was far more precise and repeatable.
The BLSI systems had a 10 second ramp up and a 10 second ramp down. I had suggested the 10 second ramp time to Chapin close to a year ago and apparently he agreed with the idea since that's how they shipped out. I didn't however think to mention to him at the time I preferred a 5 second ramp down at the time though. The reason is if there is a need to get the system to stop quickly, 10 seconds is an awful lot of film to keep yanking. As the Weinstein systems were only running for 2 weeks, I didn't want to alter any of the factory programming, so I just left it. The mods I made in no way altered the original design of their system. For example leaving the tension roller underneath the platter or coiled up under the lamphouse, or even packing the PTR roller back into the shipping boxes made no permanent alteration to the system that couldn't be put back within a couple of minutes by a non-tech.
I've never really liked any of them though. Having abandoned the idea of running film dry close to 30 years ago, I've never had, nor had any theaters I'm aware of, have a brain wrap when using FilmGuard, so they are nothing more than a waste of money and a potential show-killer to me.
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Martin McCaffery
Film God
Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 02-09-2016 02:28 PM
May as well be a completist:
Onion AV Club
quote:
Win a limited-edition vinyl copy of The Hateful Eight soundtrack
By Katie Rife@futureschlock
Feb 9, 2016 1:53 PM
Ennio Morricone was recently nominated for an Oscar for his work on The Hateful Eight, a well-deserved accolade for a legendary composer whose style has become synonymous with the spaghetti Western genre. A vinyl pressing of the Hateful Eight soundtrack was released by Jack White’s Third Man Records—and quickly sold out—late last year. But now film soundtrack freaks, analog fetishists, and anyone who likes to pretend they’re engaged in a tense standoff while they’re washing the dishes have another chance to get a copy of Morricone’s excellent score on wax.
The Verve Music Group is releasing a deluxe double-LP collectors’ edition of The Hateful Eight soundtrack, including the score as conducted by Morricone and performed live at Abbey Road, as well as snippets of dialogue from the film and pop tracks from The White Stripes and Roy Orbison. The A.V. Club is giving away five copies of this special hand-stamped, limited edition release, of which only 1,000 will be made. It also comes with a digital download of the soundtrack, CD, and Hateful Eight litho print, and retails for $136.
To enter to win one for free, send an email to avcontests@theonion.com with the subject line “The Hateful Eight.” Please be sure to include your full name and mailing address in the body of the email. U.S. entrants only. We’ll select our winners, at random, from eligible entries on Friday, February 16. Winners will be emailed directly with further instructions for claiming their prize.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 02-09-2016 06:27 PM
Gordon, please pardon the very crude drawing.
Basically without the second idler (from a Century JJ) that I put onto the machine, the emulsion side of the film would rub up against the bottom of the pad roller (as I so poorly drew on the picture above).
The 70mm polyester film simply would not wrap snugly around that thin idler directly below the intermittent pad roller because of the stiffness of the film and the lack of any real tension at that point.
Installing a second idler roller below the existing idler caused the film to be pulled downward at about the 11:00 to 12:00 position of the first idler roller instead of at 9:00 without the second idler roller.
We tried it with the smallest possible loop all the way up to a loop so big it slapped into the turret. And yes we tried EVERY loop size, incrementing it one perforation at a time. The machine absolutely could not be threaded at any loop size without laying scratches on the emulsion while using the test reel which was the same film stock, same lab, same everything as the feature. There were 3 of us that witnessed it and if you want to take a look, I did shoot a few videos as examples.
Here is a short video of the smallest loop we could make on the machine. This is from 0FPS all the way up to 24FPS at about the 38 second mark. (This is a slow motion video.)
Here is a short video of a loop 1 perforation larger. This is from 0FPS all the way up to 24FPS at about the 38 second mark. (This is also a slow motion video.)
It only got worse from there as the loop was made larger and larger.
Now there was a pre-threaded hole there that the Century idler fit right into, so my question is (since it's been 20 years since I've ran a V8), what roller USED to be there? Was it a 35/70 roller? What was the intended 70mm threading path on a fully equipped 35mm/70mm machine?
Regardless, we did what we had to do to ensure the print didn't get a mark on it.
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