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Author Topic: HATEFUL EIGHT 70mm - all discussion
Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-27-2015 03:19 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
I just saw the actual poster for this film and it was spelled with the text-eze abbreviation.
It's written that way in at least one trailer I've seen too. I don't like it. It makes the movie sound like a similar film to "Mean Girls" or something of that type.

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-01-2015 04:03 PM      Profile for Sean Weitzel   Email Sean Weitzel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would it be correct to assume that these "pre-built" prints are only for the BLSI "package installs" and theaters with existing equipment getting a booking will receive the print on conventional shipping reels in cans?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-01-2015 04:15 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rumor has it that the reel-to-reel prints will be doubled-up, with two shipping reels' worth of film on each physical reel. This is probably a smart idea to reduce shipping costs and handling damage, but could get interesting if there are any carbon-arc houses that play this film.

No idea about the platter prints for existing installations.

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Paul Gordon
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 580
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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 - posted 12-02-2015 05:34 AM      Profile for Paul Gordon   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Gordon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think they are at all concerned about arc setups let alone change over ones. Will the reels even have printed in cues? Oh when we played Baraka on 70mm a while back it came on three double upped reels.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 12-02-2015 08:02 AM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hate to ask what may seem like a stupid question to those of you who work(ed) with 70mm, but if the entire film is being shipped built up and ready to lift from the shipper directly onto the platter, with that amount of weight, how the hell do lift it?

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 12-02-2015 09:26 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the Omnimax (~14000 feet of 15-perf for a 40-minute show) we used to tip the case up, then roll the complete reel from the case to the lowest deck of the Mark I reel unit. Then lean the reel against the reel unit, and drop in the teflon hub disc onto the center of the spindle, having first removed the house reel. Then it was simply a matter of half-lifting the loaded shipping reel onto the reel unit. I imagine it will be a similar process for this UP 70 print (~21000 feet of 5-perf for a 186-minute show) onto a platter.

The IMAX lift was a two-man job unless the booth had one of those print forklifts, which we didn't have (we didn't run enough IMAX festivals (or DMR prints) to justify the money for a forklift).

Let's have some before/after H8 dead weight lift contests for the world's remaining 70mm film projectionists! [Big Grin]

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Bill Brandenstein
Master Film Handler

Posts: 413
From: Santa Clarita, CA
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 12-02-2015 06:17 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If Hateful shows up on any local SoCal screens, it still hasn't been announced where. Since Brad mentioned a while ago that Disney didn't play nice with Look in Dallas, no doubt Paul Layton's Screen Wars is a reality. Meanwhile...

quote: Leo Enticknap
From what I've heard of the script it's essentially a psychological drama, and so he may surprise us all and give us a movie that fans of 1940s and 50s westerns have no problem dealing with.
quote: Mike Blakesley
This looks like one of those movies where all the old cowboy-movie lovers will show up and then be appalled at the Quentin-Tarantino-ness of the movie.
quote: BoxOfficeMojo.com MPAA page
The Hateful Eight (Western) [Wein.12/25/15]: Rating: R. Reason: strong bloody violence, a scene of violent sexual content, language and some graphic nudity.
quote: myself
So, does the MPAA rating of "R" ...perhaps makes this the first 70mm roadshow movie in history with an "R" rating? Not a movie to take the kiddies to on Christmas day, apparently.
Well, Scorsese stepped aside from his usual content level with the delightful and merely PG-rated Hugo in 2011, but it was too much to hope for with Tarantino. I don't care how drop-dead (pun intended) amazing the picture looks, if audiences feel assaulted, they're not going to buy in; people who find this stuff offensive (and since only 3 of his movies have broken $100M, that would be plenty) are going to need rather substantial motivation to accept or overlook it. And most won't take their kids, further cutting into sales potential. Sure, like I need to tell any of you all that!

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

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From: New Castle, DE, USA
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 - posted 12-02-2015 06:32 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm fascinated by the technology and event of it all. I'm someone who has traveled all the way across the country to see some movies.

But I won't be seeing this one.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
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 - posted 12-03-2015 11:06 AM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What One Bad Screening Of 'The Hateful Eight' Means For The Future Of Film

quote: HitFix

Quentin Tarantino would have popped a blood vessel if he'd seen what we saw

By Drew McWeeny @DrewatHitFix | Thursday, Dec 3, 2015 7:30 AM

There are few things I've been looking forward to more this year than the release of Quentin Tarantino's "The Hateful Eight."

Since the live-reading he did of the script here in Los Angeles, I've been excited to see how he would hone the ending of the piece and how he and his longtime collaborator Robert Richardson would make the whole thing look. Tarantino's films are events for me, and I think a big part of that is because there is so much of my DNA as a film fan that was formed the same way as it was for him.

Starting with the Comic-Con presentation for the film, though, something else has become important thanks to the emphasis that Tarantino has placed on the 70MM presentation of the movie. After all, he went out of his way to work with Panavision to shoot in a real Super Panavision format, and it is so important to the way Tarantino wants the movie seen that he designed an entire special roadshow experience for the 70MM prints of the film.

Just check out the featurette that the Weinstein Company sent out that we've embedded at the top of this story. They have been hyping this as a major part of the experience for months, and based on Tarantino's history, it's clear that he considers film enormously important. One of the reasons he continues to fund the New Beverly Theater in Los Angeles is so there is a revival house that screens actual 35MM prints. Admirable, to say the least.

Tonight was the second major press screening of "The Hateful Eight" in Los Angeles. On Tuesday night, they screened the film at the Linwood Dunn, which is a screening room at the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts & Sciences building on Vine. Great room, and I've seen many films there in the last few years. Wednesday, it screened at both the Linwood Dunn and the Crest in Westwood, which is where I chose to see it. It's been a while since I've seen a film at the Crest, but it was chosen because it was one of very few venues in Los Angeles currently equipped to screen a real 70MM print of something.

We are at a very precarious moment for film, and one of the things that guys like Tarantino and PT Anderson and Christopher Nolan and JJ Abrams hope when they shoot film is that they're helping to keep this particular process alive. When Steven Spielberg shoots "Bridge of Spies on film, he makes a strong case for why film is still the best way to shoot. "Bridge Of Spies" is gorgeous period work. You notice, though, that he never seems to make a big deal out of it. He shoots on film because he's Steven Spielberg, and that's the way he wants it.

Meanwhile, if the studios had their way, they would simply switch over to a universal digital standard and never look back. When Nolan insists on 70MM prints of "Interstellar," that is not an easy or a cheap thing, and Warner Bros and Paramount did what he asked because of the relationship they have with him. It's important to him, so it becomes important to them. The same thing is true here. Harvey Weinstein doesn't give a shit if 70MM is possible or in use; Quentin Tarantino does.

And if Quentin Tarantino had been at the Crest on Wednesday night, he would have burned the place to the goddamn ground.

Part of loving film prints is accepting that they are imperfect things. When a film print is perfectly projected, it is magic in a way nothing else can be. It's a chemical thing. Light hits celluloid and something happens. One of the best experiences I've ever had in a theater happened at the old Alamo Drafthouse in Austin, the original downtown location. Tarantino brought his own 35MM IB Tech print of "Suspiria," and Tim League pushed the sound system to its breaking point. The colors that night were so rich it felt like you could step into the screen, and more than it ever has before, it felt like a real nightmare. I have spent my life either worshipping in the house of cinema, looking up at those images thrown up on that screen, and as soon as I was able, I got a job that put me in a theater. I started as an usher, but I quickly worked my way into the projection booth, and I went out of my way to learn everything I could about the process. Building a print, tearing one down, repairing film breaks… all of it was a pleasure for me because it was such a key part of the process. As the projectionist, my job was to make sure that people had the best possible presentation of the film, and I loved that. Even after I stopped working as a projectionist, I've always been fascinated by the various ways people have pushed the boundaries of film projection. When "How The West Was Won" played the Cinerama Dome in full Cinerama, I managed to set up a tour of the booth and a demonstration of the process close-up. It was amazing, and a reminder of just how versatile and amazing film is.

Watching digital projection develop has been interesting. I remember going to every theater in LA that had a DLP system installed for "Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace" to compare the picture, and walking away convinced we were years away from seeing digital projection that posed any serious threat to film. The 70MM presentation of "The Hateful Eight" tonight was meant to send a clear signal to the film press that was assembled: film is still the very best way to see a movie like this. I know that every single time I see "Lawrence Of Arabia" presented in 70MM, it knocks me flat. And certainly, some of those presentations have been less than perfect. As a print collector, I'm sure Tarantino has seen plenty of prints that are ragged, distressed by time and countless runs through a projector, and that's just part of things. Prints carry history with them; every single break, every build-up or break-down, every imperfection… they are all battle scars, proof of the life of these prints.

Instead of the triumphant demonstration they were hoping for, the presentation of the Crest was a serious disaster. I'm not sure why anyone would stage a screening as significant at this one and not do a tech run-through first, but it happened. There's no way any competent projectionist would have seen what we saw tonight and gone ahead with the screening. There are many reasons tonight could have gone wrong, not least of which is because the projectionist's union that was at full-strength when I moved to LA is no longer in charge of things. One thing that happens when you have dedicated, well-paid, well-trained projectionists in every single booth is that you can expect things to be handled properly, and if there's a problem, you can expect that problem to get fixed. Fast.

From the moment the film began with the OVERTURE card depicting a horse-drawn carriage riding through snow in front of a stylized mountain range, Ennio Morricone's big lush score creeping in, there was a problem. The carriage was in the center of the screen, towards the lower third of the image, and right there, almost framing the carriage, was a soft-focus spot that kept dilating in and out of focus.

The film played for two hours, until the intermission, and nothing changed. For the entire thing, that maddening focus issue continued. When the lights came up, I heard several people talking about it, puzzled why no one seemed to be doing anything about it. Eventually, someone announced that they would be showing the second half of the film via digital projection because the 70MM was no longer working.

How embarrassing is that?

You have this movie that is being sold in large part on the visual experience that only SuperPanavision 70 can deliver. And on the night you're showing it to press that is going to be responsible for spreading the word about what an indispensable part of the experience the special 70MM projection is… it fails. And whether it's the fault of the theater or the projectionist, the studio is still responsible for making sure that the film they're screening is given the best possible chance to impress.

Here's the really awful part, the thing that I feel bad writing: once they switched over to the digital projection, it looked better. And not just in that one out-of-focus spot, either. Robert Richardson has done some of the best work of his career while working with Tarantino, and looking at the film's second half, we were given a reference-copy look at Richardson's work. Because the 70MM lens was simply not working right, that overall softness could not communicate the rich burnished-leather look of the film. In the fuzzy first half, many of the details of Minnie's Haberdashery, the isolated mountain roadhouse where most of the film takes place, were lost in that vaguely focused background. In the second half, it felt like you could explore every corner of that amazing set, and it also brought all of those great faces into sharp focus. It really was night and day in all the most important ways.

To be fair, I talked with three people who attended the Linwood Dunn screenings on both nights, and they said the 70MM presentation there was terrific. But saying that only underlines just how off the Crest's presentation was. Digital has plenty of its own potential pitfalls. I remember sitting through a press screening of Steven Soderbergh's "Che," and at one point, we reached a scene where there was an American speaking English who visits Che, and there were no subtitles. Since the first half of the film had been subtitled, I thought it was a stylistic choice. "Oh, I see. We're supposed to feel like the American who is visiting them, since he probably doesn't speak Spanish." Nope. Somehow, the digital projector just stopped reading the subtitles, and after they tried to fix it for a full half-hour, they cancelled the screening.

But that screening wasn't set up to dazzle us with the virtues of digital projection. Tonight's screening was designed to make all of us walk out and proclaim, "Drive as far as you have to, but make sure you see 'The Hateful Eight' in a theater that's playing the 70MM roadshow version. And unfortunately, because most theaters and theater projectionists working right now have no practical experience with 70MM, I suspect ours will not be the only ruined screening, nor will it be the only one where they switch over to the digital back-up instead of screening the film print.

Obviously, one press screening of one movie is not enough to cause the entire industry to suddenly make a unilateral decision that shooting and releasing on film is impossible, but I guarantee that other studios are paying attention to see what kind of headache they can expect if they also tried to shoot and release a film in SuperPanavision. And each one of these moments pushes the entire industry a little bit closer to film being nothing more than a fetish. In the most recent season of "Project Greenlight," one of the main ongoing battles for filmmaker Jason Mann was that he really, really, really wanted to shoot on film. And in the end, after much arguing with Effie Brown, the film's producer, he got his wish. And in the end, it made no difference.

It is going to be more and more difficult to get a studio to agree to this kind of thing, and if they don't have to do it, they aren't going to do it. They are not going to give in to requests to shoot on film unless it can be demonstrated that film is reliable and cost-efficient. They're going to take the path of least resistance, and even if they do allow a filmmaker to shoot on film, they're really going to have a problem finding screens that are dedicated to film where there are projectionists who are trained to deal with it.

I wish Tarantino all the best with the film, and I'll have my review of it for you on December 21st. But what happened tonight felt like a pivot point for a larger conversation, and it seems doubly ironic that a filmmaker so devoted to actual film would end up inadvertently giving ammunition to those in the industry who are ready to completely abandon the format.

One screening of "The Hateful Eight" may not determine the entire eventual fate of film, but it certainly sent a message.

And besides… it's already happened at least one other time…


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Martin McCaffery
Film God

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From: Montgomery, AL
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 - posted 12-03-2015 11:41 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Drew McWeeny"? Really?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-03-2015 11:54 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
This is at least the 3rd failure now, and we're still on press screenings. I was really hoping my predictions would not be true, but sadly they seem to be on target. [Mad]

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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 12-03-2015 12:41 PM      Profile for Thomas Hauerslev   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Hauerslev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't believe everything you read. Complainers are always fun to read. Complaining gives them a feeling of being important. Gives them something to do every day.

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Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: london ontario canada
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 - posted 12-03-2015 01:16 PM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The issue at the Crest is not a subtle complaint in any way. I hope this is a WAKE UP call to Tarantino and his people.

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Mark Campbell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Seattle, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2007


 - posted 12-03-2015 02:18 PM      Profile for Mark Campbell   Email Mark Campbell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I like the Crest Theatre but for is it really the venue for a "Roadshow" ultra-Panavision film? The screen is not that big so you might as well be playing it at a multiplex. With that aspect ration the image would just be a small strip down the middle of the screen. To me a "Roadshow" should play at a Chinese or Cinerama Dome or Village etc. No the AMC multiplexes that are popping up on the list of theaters.

Sadly Star Wars really killed it for this Roadshow rollout.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-03-2015 02:49 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(donning my tin foil hat)

I'm wondering if some people in the food chain of this movie's release are purposefully being neglectful with planning and execution. There's lots of people out there absolutely sold on a digital-only movie industry and want film to just die already. A high profile failure of a 70mm film release would let that happen. I know I repeated this a few pages ago, but I'm really getting suspicious now.

These technical failures really have less to do with 70mm being "not as good as digital" and more to do with damned incompetence.

Way back in the old days before we had iPhones, lived in homes with dirt floors and had to walk 15 miles to school in the snow and sub-zero cold quite a lot of movie theaters seemed to have no problem running 70mm film prints. But today, in the year 2015, post "Back to the Future" day, some movie industry people can manage to plan and deliver a 70mm press screening successfully. That's incompetence. But the 70mm format will get all the blame for these high profile disasters as well as the multiplex disasters that seem likely to occur once the movie is released.

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