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Topic: Carmike installing 2300 Christie/AIX DLP systems

David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 09-26-2007 02:11 PM

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Just for our 3 locations with 46 screens we make between over $100,000 per year running video ads (we do a revenue share with the sales company so the gross is higher) . . . . . . . and we are not responsible for lamps or maintenance (and we didn't buy the projectors either) . . . . . . . video ads are definitely lucrative with the right salespeople . . . . .

I understand the "big 2" onscreen ad companies offer a minimum per attendee payment but you have to accept national ads - it's the national ads that have to show after showtime that are annoying to me (one of the "big 2" requires national ads to run after the published showtime and the other shows them just before showtime) . . . . locally produced video ads for local businesses are sometimes entertaining to watch . . . .

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Scott Norwood
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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-26-2007 03:20 PM

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Mark -- I do film stuff as a hobby and can pick and choose. I like working in museums because they are generally well equipped and people generally care about presentation. I also enjoy working for colleges, festivals, and smaller theatres that care. The only places around here that do video advertising are the AMC-type gigaplexes and I just can't see doing that sort of thing ever again.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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posted 09-26-2007 04:32 PM

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quote: Scott Norwood
I do film stuff as a hobby and can pick and choose.

I'm just the opposite... My hobby turned into my job. It was 28 years ago when I left the miserable workd of broadcast television and I was a film and equipment collector. Working on broadcast equipment was alot of fun and a great challenge but the people around me were miserable and I was determined not to end up like them.

Personally I don't find plex's to be bad... I just consider them mainstream. There are only three kinds... typpical, good, and bad. An excellent plex simply does not exist. Its sad that someone with your abilities and desire for good showmanship is not at the helm guiding some "chain" into better ways of operation, many of them sure could use you.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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posted 09-26-2007 09:05 PM

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
An excellent plex simply does not exist.

There's a couple of Warren Theaters locations in Wichita, KS I'll certainly be glad to label as "excellent." Can't wait for the new 20 screen complex they're building in Moore, OK.

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Ky Boyd
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From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-08-2007 02:16 AM

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Getting back to the topic...I checked out the Carmike DLP installation in my hometown, Great Falls, Montana tonight. After giving myself a self-guided tour of the 10-plex, I have to say I'm completely unimpressed with the quality of Carmike's install. From Martian Child to American Gangster to Bee Movie to Michael Clayton to Saw IV, not a single DLP image I saw on screen filled the screen. Some such as Martian Child didn't fill the full width of the scope screen, but were wider than the flat image the automation defaults to. Others such as Michael Clayton were like a ribbon of image across the screen with lots of white screen top and bottom. American Gangster had white screen on all four sides of the image. Does Carmike not size the lenses for DLP to the screens? Or do they have to build new front ends? I know when Cinema West put the Christie DLP systems into Petaluma, all the images fit the screens, so why is this Carmike such a mess in terms of presentation? Oh, and the not leveled, skewed off to one-side pre-show projectors were really professional looking too, in the two auditoriums that were running them.

Oh, and what is with the no ice-cream products at the concessions stand?

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Richard Fowler
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 11-08-2007 07:21 AM

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Many of the guys I know in the front end of thew business are very busy making adjustments to digital installs.......

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David Zylstra
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From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-08-2007 08:27 AM

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quote: Ky Boyd
Does Carmike not size the lenses for DLP to the screens? Or do they have to build new front ends?

It is Christie's job to size the lenses - if they are wrong it's not Carmike's fault (but the blame for not following up and getting the right ones is). I wonder if on some the wrong format was selected - i.e. if you run a scope movie in the flat format it will display as letterboxed on the screen (but this does not explain the pictures that did not hit the masking on any of the 4 sides).

quote: Ky Boyd
Oh, and what is with the no ice-cream products at the concessions stand?

Our owner has the same policy - his reasoning is the supposed smell if/when a spill does not get cleaned up and it goes sour (not the obvious spills that would get cleaned up between shows but the one that soaks into the carpet and seats).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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posted 11-08-2007 08:31 AM

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quote: Richard Fowler
Many of the guys I know in the front end of thew business are very busy making adjustments to digital installs.......

We have a number of D-Cinema systems going in early next month and our customers have said that the problem is still at distirbution where the majority of the bookers still don't know how to book a given release in digital, similar to the "I've never heard of 70mm.... or "Whats that?" at the distribution level.

I suspect a newbie did that install and he didn't quite know what he was doing yet.

The only chain that sells Ice Cream in my area is Megaplex.

Mark

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Mike Blakesley
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From: Forsyth, Montana
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posted 11-08-2007 09:21 AM

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quote: David Zylstra
I wonder if on some the wrong format was selected - i.e. if you run a scope movie in the flat format

Why is that even possible? In a digital setup, can't that kind of mistake be automated out of happening?

I've seen a few movies at the Carmike in Billings which is very similar to the Great Falls, and they don't have any of the problems Ky describes.

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Bobby Henderson
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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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posted 11-08-2007 09:37 AM

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The problems noted at the Carmike location in Great Falls, MT can be corrected. The manager there should be "on the ball" enough to notice the problems and make AccessIT aware of the situation. If the theater's manager is one of those types who doesn't really care about show quality and just does the minimum to collect his paycheck, then you go around the guy. I've done this before. I am not bashful at all about contacting a district manager or division manager. Since the technical issues of d-cinema are the responsibility of Christie and AccessIT, I would even consider contacting them -especially if this problem has been going on for very long at all.

Just to play "devil's advocate," I'll say the installation and technical crews for Christie and AccessIT are really working their asses off. They're getting down the home stretch of finishing the 2300 screen Carmike package (2144 DLP systems will be in operation as of this Friday). To add to the installation difficulty, those crews are dealing with a lot of older, smaller locations. And they're getting a 2nd wave of Real-D systems up and running before the opening of Beowulf next week. On top of that it appears Carmike will be adding a video-based pre-show program and doing away with the slide projectors. So that's even more stuff to install and set up.

In addition, Christie/AccessIT handled the Rave Motion Pictures Theaters project (a few hundred screens) and have a lot of other stuff going on outside of the daunting Carmike Cinemas project.

With all that stated, I'm willing to cut those guys at least some slack. Hopefully as all of the activity settles down somewhat the people responsible for technical services work on Christie/AccessIT systems will be able to visit existing d-cinema installations much more frequently rather than having much of their time taken up with new installations. The Christie/AccessIT package is pretty good at adapting to lots of different auditorium types, but some installations may need a repeat visit to get things right.

Ice Cream in a movie theater? Yeah. My first thought about that is the cleaning nightmare. Just imagine an auditorium full of kids watching Bee Movie and smearing their ice cream cones on the seats. And, yes, milk-based products do sour. Drips and spills could have an auditorium stinking pretty bad. Overall, I guess it just depends on the kinds of customers who are visiting that theater. I hate to say it, but you don't want to be serving stuff like ice cream, hot wings and other sticky, gooey stuff to certain groups of people.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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posted 11-08-2007 10:28 AM

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I agree... some slack here and it might well be a brand new as yet uncompleted installation. It could also be as easy as just re-sizing the image on the DMD's. I seriously doubt they got the wrong lenses at that site and these zooms have a really long zoom range as compared to most others LCD type projectors. I think the new BARCO DP-2000 only has three zoom lenses all with overlaping focal range available at this point in time. Christie has I think 5 or 6 for the new ZX but their lenses don't overlap in focal length.

quote: Bobby Henderson
My first thought about that is the cleaning nightmare.

I've heard that nacho's cheese is way worse to get out. Nachos... the food substitute [thumbsup]

[thumbsup]

, a close relative to Soilent Green I presume.

Mark

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

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From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-08-2007 11:31 AM

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I wouldn't cut them much slack even though I do understand they are overworked - if a 35mm install was left with similar picture issues would we be saying the same thing? Of all the comments on this forum about picture quality and properly sized flat/scope screens why are potentially bad digital setups now OK because someone is overworked? Christie is getting paid very well to do these installs - I know what we paid up front to Christie and it was significantly more than what I would pay for a 35mm install that included sound system setup.
Anyone here who has done installs knows how hard it is to get back to a remote site where you left some items unfinished, especially if you are busy with lots of installs.

FYI - the install crew is not doing the RealD stuff for locations that already have digital projectors, that is being left to the local techs (and in our area I understand the local techs did some of the full installs as well).

quote: Mike Blakesley
Why is that even possible? In a digital setup, can't that kind of mistake be automated out of happening?

There are "macro cues" available to the DoReMi that will directly control the projector format, but depending on how they were set up the DCA21 automation may be overriding the format choice. Of course there is also the distinct possibility of user error - i.e. wrong format show chosen on the automation and/or wrong cue placed on the showlist (but the macro cues only control the projected format, not the masking - at least on my install)

quote: Bobby Henderson
On top of that it appears Carmike will be adding a video-based pre-show program and doing away with the slide projectors. So that's even more stuff to install and set up.

No install necessary if they are going with the AccessIT advertising program since they put out a DCP that the scheduler recognizes as "preshow" and starts the show early. If they are using another advertising program (i.e. ScreenVision or NCM) Christie does not do those installs.

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Mike Blakesley
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posted 11-08-2007 01:16 PM

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quote: Bobby Henderson
the theater's manager is one of those types who doesn't really care about show quality and just does the minimum to collect his paycheck

That's apparently all Carmike has in Montana. Until DC was installed in Billings, scratched/spliced prints and misfocused, misframed pictures were common. I used to dread getting the occasional circuit from the Plaza 6 in Butte...film that came out of that place was invariably damaged.

Carmike had 6 screens in Helena (a rapidly growing area) but folded their tent and left town shortly after Cinemark built a nice 8-plex there. (They are going to add 6 more screens to it next year.) The same thing is happening in Bozeman -- probably the most upscale town in Montana. Wallace built a beautiful 8-plex there, while Carmike keeps going with their run-down 30 year old properties.

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David Stambaugh
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posted 11-08-2007 01:56 PM

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How the heck can a brand-new or almost new DLP install be that messed up? Is the install crew so rushed that they throw stuff in and don't take care of all the details and say "We'll come back later to make it all right"? That's crazy talk.

Does Carmike not send out "secret shoppers" to evaluate their theaters? WTF! I mean how hard is it to tell a GM "Your presentation falls far below our our standards; fix it or you're out of there!" Jesus H Christ! [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

[Razz]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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posted 11-08-2007 03:01 PM

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quote: David Zylstra
I wouldn't cut them much slack even though I do understand they are overworked

You might want to walk a mile in their shoes before saying that.

quote: David Zylstra
If a 35mm install was left with similar picture issues would we be saying the same thing?

No. That's because you're making an overly simplistic apples to oranges comparison.

A 35mm film projection setup isn't quite as complicated as one of these d-cinema setups (although film has its own difficulties and requirements of expertise). That's especially true with theaters that have an entire location's screens converted to d-cinema. You not only have a different kind of projector to deal with. The Doremi server and DCA21 automation must be made to play friendly with the existing sound system rack. There's a huge deal of networking tasks to complete, not to mention a refrigerator sized SAN server to get up and running. Just about every location must have a major upgrade done to their electrical power. It's a real huge tangle of shit to get through and sometimes they just can't get all of that crap done in mere handful of days. Shit happens. The crews get thrown a curve ball, often from issues stemming from the old movie theater location where they're installing this expensive gear. Sometimes it's necessary to make a return trip to get odd issues here and there cleaned up.

To expect every single screen in this 2300 system install to work 100% perfect right out of the box is a tad bit unreasonable.

quote: David Zylstra
FYI - the install crew is not doing the RealD stuff for locations that already have digital projectors, that is being left to the local techs (and in our area I understand the local techs did some of the full installs as well).

Christie's tech people installed and setup the first RealD system here in Lawton and installed the hardware in October for the 2nd and 3rd systems. I don't know who installed the silver screens. Management was coached through doing the final setup on those systems since available techs were spread elsewhere, such as New Mexico for the Allen Theaters conversion project now getting underway.

quote: David Zylstra
There are "macro cues" available to the DoReMi that will directly control the projector format, but depending on how they were set up the DCA21 automation may be overriding the format choice. Of course there is also the distinct possibility of user error - i.e. wrong format show chosen on the automation and/or wrong cue placed on the showlist (but the macro cues only control the projected format, not the masking - at least on my install)

You should be able to control the screen masking from the DCA21. The Carmike 8 here in Lawton can do "flat" to "scope" changes during preshow complete with the curtains opening all the way for the simulated lens change.

Getting cues set right on the time line can be tricky. The Real D system can be a little finicky with cues. My friends tell me the system will want to do things like flash a bright green field on the screen when it turns on. They have to stick "black" on the timeline if the system tries to do that.

I wondering about issues with the JPEG2000 movie files themselves. During the first few weeks of Lawton's theater running d-cinema they were having strange image format problems with Texas Chainsaw Massacre: the Beginning. Other movies played without issue in that auditorium but this one didn't want to cooperate. It was if image was cropped inward to "flat" proportions and then zoomed in further to "scope". Weird. Christie/AccessIT cleared up the issue, but I don't know what they did to solve it.

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