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Topic: Dolby's new sound system
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 10-08-2012 01:01 PM
quote: Scott Norwood
Someone needs to make a remote fader box that goes to "11" (call it the "cat. 779 - Spinal Tap version"). Filmmakers always seem to be deaf, so it would be nice to give them something like that to twiddle with during their screenings.
That's a great idea, although it would be cool to label it "Fine volume adjust" and have it right where customers could see it. Then when someone says they want it louder or softer, you could say "Oh, I'm sorry, let me adjust that for you." Then give the knob a turn and they would be happy. I don't know how many times I've told somebody I would raise or lower the volume, but didn't actually change a thing, but then after the show they say "thanks for fixing the volume, it was much better."
As for being able to play a system at 7 and not generate complaints, well my wife and I had a chance to hear what's probably one of the best cinema sound systems in the world -- the one at the Dolby Screening Room in San Francisco. They were playing the movie "Transformers 3" and we both thought that was ridiculously loud. It sounded great, don't get me wrong....but my personal taste would have liked it not to be so loud. (Also that movie sucked, so maybe that played into it.)
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 10-10-2012 09:06 AM
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
What this industry NEEDS DESPERATELY is a testing and certification program similar to THX but without the politics and BS. One that is actually enforced and followed up on. Any theater that does not meet the standard should be required to post signs advising filmgoers that their sound sucks.
In concept, I agree wholeheartedly.
However, the consensus among many respected parties here is that good sound is unmeasurable. Or, rather, that sound that measures well doesn't sound the best.
Without a scientific standard by which to measure, judge, and adjust, everyone's just guessing and the industry is doomed to never get it "right" because "right" is seemingly different to everyone.
I continue to hold my stubborn position that THX got it right in its intention to raise the bar. I would even go so far as to say that the entire industry would be in a much more sorry state had they not done what they did back in the day. Politics and bureaucracy (and maybe a little greed thrown in for good measure) spoiled a good thing, so now we're in danger of heading backwards with no one at the switch.
As THX said at the time, THX isn't digital sound, but THX will make digital sound better. The same could go for 7-channel LPCM and Atmos. All the technology in the world can't make up for the fact that the management and/or staff at some theaters just aren't going to do what it takes to put on a flawless presentation.
If Atmos can't do more than a couple dozen installs and play movies several months apart (Brave opened 6/22), I don't see it getting traction. It needs a wider range of theaters and a movie that is going to blow the minds of those who see it in an Atmos-equipped theater, so as to generate word-of-mouth publicity that will build the momentum they need to become more than a curiosity in the annals of movie exhibition history.
I would like to see Dolby go after the premium theaters that are charging people $20-30 each for the next round of installs (iPic, Cinepolis, et al). These are theaters that are catering to people with spending money, who are probably also more discriminating moviegoers as well. One would hope that these auditoriums have been built well, have decent equipment, and the margins should mean that these theaters aren't pinching pennies just to keep the lights on another day and are willing to deliver something special to keep people coming back and paying their luxury prices.
One would hope Dolby is seeking out the best auditoriums in which to install their new system, so that they don't get a black eye by having some crap theater advertising Atmos only to deliver a half-witted presentation. Perhaps they are, and they are having trouble finding such locations, and that would explain what appears to be zero growth in locations since its introduction?
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 10-10-2012 11:16 AM
quote: Scott Jentsch
One would hope Dolby is seeking out the best auditoriums in which to install their new system, so that they don't get a black eye by having some crap theater advertising Atmos only to deliver a half-witted presentation. Perhaps they are, and they are having trouble finding such locations, and that would explain what appears to be zero growth in locations since its introduction?
I think it's more the cost of it, than anything. If Atmos would have happened, say 15 years ago, things might have been different. But now, with theaters having having DC systems to pay off and supply bulbs, service and upkeep for, it'll probably be at least a few years down the road for most (and that's IF it turns into a necessity, which seems a little questionable at this point).
quote: Scott Jentsch
Without a scientific standard by which to measure, judge, and adjust, everyone's just guessing and the industry is doomed to never get it "right" because "right" is seemingly different to everyone.
There's also the fact that everyone hears differently and likes different things. Lots of people (including me) like big loud movies with lots of explosions and car chases and such, whereas a person who prefers quiet, dialog-driven movies would probably say that my car-chase movie "sounded terrible" even though it probably sounded fantastic to me. It's like trying to decide what music is "good" and what isn't. You can't do it definitively for everybody.
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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 10-22-2012 01:06 AM
quote: Mike Blakesley
I think they are used to the "good old days" where all the sound came out of a 3" speaker on the front of the TV (or radio) so anything more "realistic" seems too loud.
That's ridiculous. I'm 62 and an ex-recording engineer (so I think I know what good sound is supposed to sound like) and it's not sound from a 3" speaker. People who were of working age and moderately successful in the 1950s are those who bought into "hi-fi" (and many of those system sounded far better than the crappy digital home systems of today). Those people would be in their 80s now (although not necessarily hearing very well, especially if they've spent their lives in noisy environments).
I think most action movies ARE too loud. The problem is that almost no one understands what dynamic range is about anymore. The ego of directors (and many sound mixers) gets the better of them and they think they can create excitement simply by making it louder, but they never stop and so the movie is loud end to end, the mix turns to mud and dialogue intelligibility drops.
And unless you live on an airport runway, under a roller coaster or in a factory, "realistic" sound is not at 110db.
There's also the issue (although more in the music industry than the movie industry) that many mixers already have severe hearing loss, so they mix louder. Levels are so hot in music clubs today (and even many Broadway shows) that if they were factories, they would be violating OSHA regulations for noise exposure. If you come out of a show or sporting event or whatever and your ears are ringing, you already have hearing damage. Every musician I know has tinnitus. I had tinnitus for a year and it's not fun.
I was at an Audio Engineering Society convention some years back and there was a panel of music mixers and mastering engineers. A question came up of whether the Beatles would be as popular today as they were back in their day and aside from the issue of market fragmentation, the answer was "no" because their records would be highly level compressed today and they would become tedious to listen to.
That's the problem with today's action movies - if it's all loud, there's no surprise and it's tedious to listen to. When I saw the last Batman movie, when Bane is in the stadium I couldn't understand a word that he said. I thought it was my problem and due to hearing loss. Then I saw a video on YouTube that satirized this scene. Apparently, many people couldn't understand a word that he said.
As far as Dolby Atmos is concerned, I saw Taken 2 in Dolby Atmos and I have to say that I thought the sound was pretty terrific (the movie sucked, but I knew that going in). I didn't really think the extra channels would make such a difference, except perhaps for flyovers, but they did. First movie in a long time where the sound put a smile on my face. Atmos would definitely get me into theatres more often and I don't even think it's been used to its real potential as yet since the first few films have been mixed standard 5.1 or 7.1 and then "sweetened" with Atmos' object model. I think it's going to get better as mixers get used to using it (if it survives and actually becomes a fully realized commercial product.)
quote: Mark Hajducki
Dolby should restrict Atmos to theatres that are prepared to do a full install with enough independent, well placed, speakers to give the full effect. The auditoria would also need to be inspected to avoid installs in rooms with excessive sound bleed and background noise.
Unfortunately, Dolby is not doing that. They're marketing it on the basis that it can work in almost any configuration as long as you individually wire each speaker, even without adding the ceiling speakers or the rear woofers. I think that's a big mistake because if consumers go to a theatre where the movie is advertised as "Atmos" and the sound isn't distinctively better, they won't return, especially if there's an upcharge. They should have at least a minimum required configuration.
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