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Topic: Dolby's new sound system

Jason McMillan
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 05-21-2013 04:34 PM

I'm not completely sure if the fact Atmos uses 1/12 band octave equalization (instead of the standard 1/3) had much to do with it.. I will have to defer that to a more knowledgeable sound geek. But it did sound much more crisp and bright to my ears. I can say this much, the difference was enough that even though this theatre is 40 miles from my house, we've already decided this is where we are going to go see Man of Steel. But would I drive here to see, say, The Hangover.. no.. probably not.

I know they're using Crown CDi series amps, but I didnt get a close enough look to see which particular model. The brief tour I got was exactly that-- brief.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-21-2013 04:40 PM

I don't know how many movie theaters are going to bother installing Atmos any time soon. There doesn't seem to be any incentive if the Atmos process isn't going to get any "ink" in mainstream movie advertising.

I see plenty of the "see it in Real-D and IMAX 3D" crap added onto the tail end of movie trailers and TV commercials. I have not seen a single one make any mention of Dolby Atmos. I still have yet to see any movie poster make mention of Dolby Atmos. The posters still mention the 35mm digital sound formats (Dolby Digital, SDDS and DTS/Datasat) even though film projection and by extension those film-based sound formats are nearly dead. Those lossy digital sound formats are still listed in the end credits of movies, but I haven't seen Dolby Atmos mentioned there either.

Does anyone know if this is changing? Is Atmos going to get any attention at all?

The movie theater chains themselves deserve some flak too for all their imitation IMAX Digital screens that also carry a big price premium above regular admission. I'll see TV commercials for some movies, including the latest Fast and Furious sequel, throw up a few giant screen acronyms. But Fast and Furious 6 wasn't mixed in Dolby Atmos, so that's a moot point there. Still, those wannabe Lie-MAX processes are getting more publicity than Dolby Atmos. And that's really a shame. From the way it is described Dolby Atmos may be a very revolutionary sound process that gives commercial movie theaters the opportunity to get way the hell ahead of what can be done in home theater.

But very few movie theaters are going to invest the big sum of money it apparently takes to install Dolby Atmos the right way and keep the system properly tuned and maintained -so long as the Dolby Atmos process isn't getting a damned bit of marketing attention from movie distributors. The general public has to be aware of it and the differences between it and the regular 5.1/7.1 LPCM of digital cinema to go out of their way to experience it.

IMHO, Atmos isn't going anywhere as long as this marketing situation stays stupidly screwed up.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 05-21-2013 05:21 PM

I can't wait until a chain (and this is unlikely) comes up with a design that makes say, 10 screens, all premium sized and outfitted with Atmos capabilities, and then charges patrons nothing extra to see films there. Just standard ticket prices, including 3D.

That chain would tear it up!

AJG

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-21-2013 07:04 PM

Dolby's apparently going to promote Atmos with all the gusto they threw behind their 3-D system, which is to say, nobody outside of "geekdom" will know about it.

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Jason McMillan
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 05-21-2013 07:59 PM

quote: Aaron Garman
I can't wait until a chain (and this is unlikely) comes up with a design that makes say, 10 screens, all premium sized and outfitted with Atmos capabilities, and then charges patrons nothing extra to see films there. Just standard ticket prices, including 3D.

Well the Santikos Palladium 22 AVX comes close.. at least 18 of the auditoriums are wall-to-wall and floor-to-ceiling screens (the other 4 "art house auditoriums" were still under construction and I didn't get a chance to see how big their screens were but I think they're also the same), 6 Atmos auditoriums, the rest are Barco Auro 11.1, no extra upcharge except for 3D features. I think the niftiest thing was the first two rows of seats are tilted backward to help with the viewing angle.

I do believe the six Atmos auditoriums have 85' screens (at least that is what they were saying on their facebook page while posting construction photos).

One thing that perplexed me tho.. they put a bowling alley in the theatre.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 05-22-2013 02:26 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
My guess is what they really mean there is "Ceiling speakers are never a good idea if they're playing the same information as the side wall speakers are."

But "never" is an absolute. They said "Ceiling speakers are never a good idea" and ended it there. "Never" meaning under absolutely any circumstances that could possibly present themselves. Ever. No matter what. Period. End of story. But not really. Because I keep on typing.

quote: Bobby Henderson
I see plenty of the "see it in Real-D and IMAX 3D" crap added onto the tail end of movie trailers and TV commercials. I have not seen a single one make any mention of Dolby Atmos.

Hell, I've seen ETX and RPX logos at the end of TV movie ads and those aren't even real things!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-22-2013 11:12 AM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Dolby's apparently going to promote Atmos with all the gusto they threw behind their 3-D system, which is to say, nobody outside of "geekdom" will know about it.

I really hope that's not the case. If so, Dolby Atmos won't get very far past a few key "flagship" style theater installations.

It's one thing for audio processes like Dolby Digital Surround EX or what Dolby was trying to brand as Dolby Surround 7.1 to not gain much traction with the public. Movie theater operators were able to install those capabilities at a cost that wasn't all that high. They might have attracted enough movie sound geeks to make the modest investment worth it.

Dolby Atmos is a very expensive process to install. The processor is more expensive. The auditorium needs better quality speakers and a hell of a lot more of them. The booth requires more amplifiers. The Atmos processor isn't cheap. I don't know the price breakdown, but I'm under the impression adding Atmos to an existing screen would top $30,000 or more. We also can't forget the cost of maintenance. If higher quality surround speakers are required (to hit 105db peak levels from reference position) and they're going to be pushed to really show off the muscle of an Atmos setup that's going to translate into repairing/replacing blown speaker drivers on a regular basis. Not only will Dolby Atmos cost a lot more than a standard 5.1 channel movie theater sound system, it's going to cost more to maintain.

If a movie theater operator is going to go through the extra labor and expense of installing Dolby Atmos he's going to expect something in return: a credible marketing push to advertise his costly investment.

Dolby on its own can do only so much. Somehow they've got to get the movie distributors on board with promoting Dolby Atmos. What the hell did Real-D and IMAX do to get their names all over the movie trailers, movie commercials, movie posters, etc.? Why wasn't Dolby 3D included with any of that? Are the movie distributors charging Real-D and IMAX a product placement fee to get advertising space in a movie title's marketing?

Whatever is happening the Dolby Atmos brand has to show up in every area of an Atmos-supported movie's marketing. Iron Man 3 and Star Trek: Into Darkness both had Atmos mixes created. But I damn sure never saw the Dolby Atmos brand in any of their promotions. I saw a lot of IMAX and Real-D though. The only way I can find out of a movie is going to be released in Atmos is by visiting Dolby's web site. That's not acceptable.

I want to see a lot of commercial movie theaters install Dolby Atmos (and install it in more than the minimal configuration). But theater operators aren't going to have any incentive as long as the movie studios aren't doing anything to build public consciousness about the Dolby Atmos brand in their movie marketing.

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 05-22-2013 12:33 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
What the hell did Real-D and IMAX do to get their names all over the movie trailers, movie commercials, movie posters, etc.? Why wasn't Dolby 3D included with any of that? Are the movie distributors charging Real-D and IMAX a product placement fee to get advertising space in a movie title's marketing?

I used to work for a company that did document writing, one of our clients was IMAX, I can state for a fact that IMAX did not pay to have their logos on posters or trailers and marketing materials. The distributors understand how valuable the IMAX brand is right now and will work with IMAX to use it to promote movies.

One of the IMAX core internal mission goals was to ensure the power of the IMAX brand so that distributors or studios would not drop from the ads.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 05-22-2013 02:30 PM

When I saw STAR TRECK INTO DARKNESS with Dolby Atmos yesterday , I picked up a brochure about the sound system that had indicated the system uses up to sixty four speakers and a hundred twenty eight audio streams to create the illusion of an infinite field of sound all the way around you-even above your head. From what I heard yesterday, the sound 'almost' does this but it would have been even better if the sound was directional behind the screen like early four track magnetic stereo used to to with CinemaScope in the early fifties. Dolby Atmos still places spoken dialogue coming from the centre of the screen like all the recent stereo sound systems like SRD, DTS and SDDS.

-Claude

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-22-2013 03:27 PM

IIRC, Dolby Atmos supports 5 full range speaker systems behind the screen. Those speaker systems can be used for dialog on screen tracking effects but only if the sound designers bother to mix the dialog in that manner.

Honestly, dialog can be panned across the screen even with a standard 5.1 setup with L, C, R stage channels. The problem with dialog being locked into the center channel has nothing to do with limits of the sound system. It has 100% to do with the conventional thinking of the movie-makers. They chose to place the dialog there. The sound format didn't force them to do so.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-22-2013 05:54 PM

Dolby Atmos should bring back a bit of directional dialog as that is one of the things they now promote. One of the reasons given for the hard-center dialog is to avoid timbre differences between channels...also without 5-screen channels, there is often too big a "hole" between L and C as well as R and C.

However, it is truly up to the sound designer to use the capability. The system can certainly handle it.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-22-2013 06:16 PM

Time is the great equalizer; not enough of it in Post. Dialog to center and 2 channel surrounds is quick and easy. When a production falls behind, the sound is the first thing to be cut since it hasn't started yet.

Cartoons have it better, since a preliminary track is laid down first, the visual is cut to it. Changes to audio are easy as long as timing does not change. Louis

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-22-2013 07:56 PM

And Pixar movies are known for their directional dialog.

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Ron Curran
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 05-22-2013 08:44 PM

It would be hard to justify the cost of Atmos. With SR and DTS we could never be certain of getting the right print/discs.

Now, with almost every 7.1 release we receive a 5.1 KDM and have to request a 7.1.

Delivery timing means we can not risk advertising 7.1. The best we can do is add the Dolby ad to the front of the feature.

I don't know why they can't have all sound formats on the key.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-23-2013 07:12 AM

Have you registered your 7.1 screens? As a dealer, we ensure our customers are registered. In the event a distributor does not always provide keys, we have had GREAT success via Dolby to rectify the problem.

Naturally, the policies of distribution in the USA and Australia are likely different animals.

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