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Author Topic: Dolby's new sound system
Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-19-2012 02:01 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sad, is what it is. I can't believe Dolby let RealD get in bed with virtually every single studio regarding 3-D, after doing such a great job of getting the sound logos plastered all over everything back in the early days of surround and digital.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-19-2012 06:49 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The realities are, Real-D has a business model that seems to have captured a large portion of the exhibition. They give you the system (or at worst it is a $10K up front)...and only charge 50-cents per ticket. They also get an exclusivity into their contracts (can't place any other brand of 3d in the theatre). For Sony (Regal and AMC), Real-D is the only 3D, at the moment.

The other thing that comes back on Dolby 3D is the hassle of collecting/cleaning the glasses...Real-D removes that hassle.

Now in France, I guess Real-D is effectively outlawed (as would Master Image). I hear that Dolby 3D has done better overseas than in the USA.

As to tags...most of my customers want to run the Dolby countdown, regardless of server!

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Connor Wilson
Expert Film Handler

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From: Sterling, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted 06-09-2012 08:09 AM      Profile for Connor Wilson   Email Connor Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby just recently announced the first theatres to include Dolby Atmos.

quote:
United States & Canada
AMC Barrywoods 24 (Kansas City, MO)
AMC Burbank 16 (Burbank, CA)
AMC Century City 15 (Century City, CA)
AMC Downtown Disney 24 (Lake Buena Vista, FL)
AMC Garden State 16 (Paramus, NJ)
AMC Van Ness 14 (San Francisco, CA)
Arclight Sherman Oaks (Sherman Oaks, CA)
Brenden Theatres at the Palms (Las Vegas, NV)
Century at Pacific Commons and XD (Fremont, CA)
Cinemark West Plano and XD (West Plano, TX)
SilverCity-Yonge Eglinton Cinemas (Cineplex) (Toronto, ON)
Cinetopia Vancouver Mall 23 (Vancouver, WA)
Kerasotes Showplace ICON at Roosevelt Collection (Chicago, IL)
The Dolby Theatre (Hollywood, CA)

Europe
Cinesa Diagonal Mar (Barcelona, Spain)
Empire Leicester Square (London, United Kingdom)

Asia
China Film Stella Theater Chain Hefei 1912 (He Fei, China)
Shanghai Film Art Center (Shanghai, China)
UME Shuangjing (Beijing, China)
Wanda Cinemas Wuhan Lingjiao Lake (Wuhan, China)

http://investor.dolby.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=681590

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

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From: Dallas, TX
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 - posted 06-26-2012 04:18 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My review of Dolby Atmos

This was my third viewing of Brave, so I was pretty familiar with the standard mix of the film. I went solely with the intention to listen to Atmos, Dolby's new cinema audio format that allows up to 128 channels of audio across 64 locations. This is at it's peak. The thing about Atmos is that it is scalable, unlike previous Dolby formats. Atmos works with as few as 6 channels, or as many as 128, depending on how many amps, speakers, and wire-runs a theatre owner wishes to instal. Think of it this way, the listener sits in the middle of a sphere. The sound mixer is able to assign sound elements to any position in that sphere around the listener. The cinema processor takes that composite mix data and assigns each speaker a position relative to that sphere, and then creates a live mix for that specific speaker configuration in that specific auditorium in real time. It's pretty cool stuff.

The theatre I was in had 20 speakers in the ceiling, running in two rows from the front to the back. the left and right wall had 14 surround speakers each, running all the way up to about 5 feet from the screen, much closer to the front stage than is typical. The rear wall had 6 speakers. While I could not see behind the screen, the panning and imaging of the dialog (more on this later) seemed to indicate at least 5 full range stage channels. So that is at least 60 speakers, including the sub-bass. That does not necessarily translate into 60 channels, as the theatre may not have gone to the added expense of running 60 separate home runs back to 60 separate amps. I figured that after the movie started, I would be able to determine the number of actual channels if I listened carefully enough.

As I took my seat, the first look was playing. It sounded big, boomy, and harsh, which I had come to expect from XD and other "premium experience" theatres. They were built to sound big, not to sound correct. This had me worried, but I figured that I shouldn't start judging based upon the preshow. The First Look ended, and the trailers proper started. Again, the audio was big and it was harsh. I began to lament that my first Atmos show was going to have to be seen in a horribly EQ'd room. Voices were shrill and lacking in resonant natural lows. It was obvious that Atmos was not in use, as I was able to clearly localize the standard 5 channels and nothing outside of them.

Finally the lights dimmed. And what happened next was nothing short of breathtaking. You know that feeling, in a scope auditorium, when the screen expands from left to right to accommodate the larger picture? This was like the audio equivalent.

Over a completely black screen, plain white text appears. I cannot remember exactly what it said, but it was something along the lines of "What you see is only part of the movie. Sound makes it real.."

As the text fades away, jungle sounds fade in. The sound is incredibly smooth and immersive. I cannot localize a thing. The sound is just... everywhere. And it's rich and full. Gone is the harsh EQ from the trailers. A fly buzzes by above my head and to the left, but then flies, almost right over my shoulder, along the right and to the screen. Colors on the screen fade in, out of focus leaves in the fall become visible. One of the leaves snaps off with a nice crunch, and floats. The camera follows the leaf and, the entire ambiance of the sound space MOVES WITH THE CAMERA. In all of surround I've never heard such a cool sense of imaging across the entire room, each individual sound effect in the scene moving perfectly along the room with the camera as the leaf soars and tumbles through the air, finally landing on the ground. "Dolby Atmos" gently fades in, as the ambiance and sound fade out. "Hear the whole picture" fades in in near silence. It is the quietest and yet most impressive sound system trailer I've ever seen. Most sound trailers are about being loud and showing off the subs. Atmos isn't about being loud and in your face. It's a big statement, and a good direction to move in.

One of the things I miss about (and if you want you can take me to task and tell me I'm wrong) about traditional Dolby Stereo and ProLogic of the 80s and early 90s, was that it created a nice sense of spaciousness in the room. It's one of the few things I thought good matrix decoding was good at.

As the movie started, that was what I noticed most. The spaciousness was back. Individual channels melted away into an expensive sound stage. Just as in the trailer, I found it difficult to pinpoint exactly where a speaker channel was. But I could pinpoint the tens of individual sounds that made up the scene precisely.

As the films opening number "Touch The Sky" kicked in, I noticed how Atmos handled pop-music. In traditional 5.1, pop music is typically routed hard left and hard right, vocals hard center, and if the sound mixer was particularly talented, they might bleed a small amount of the instrumentation into the surrounds and center. In Atmos, the song, including vocals, was not at all directly locatable. "Front and Wide" is the best way I can think of to describe it.

Directional panning, not just with the camera as described in the Atmos trailer, is really great. Dialog followed all over the screen, no longer tied to the center. In one scene Fergus walks off the screen to the right. His voice follows from center, to right center, to hard right, and then to about the first 3 frontmost right surround speakers, perfectly timbre matched as it pans into them!

Now, here's the thing. about 10 minutes in, I forgot i was watching in Atmos. I forgot to continue to pay attention to the mix. I was in the movie. I had to pull myself back out several times and remind myself that I was there to critically listen. That is to say, Atmos NEVER drew attention back to itself. There was never any point in the movie where i thought, "Oh! Listen to those ceiling channels! That's really something!"

And I think that is really the point of Atmos.

Some will say having so many channels is overkill. But what I experienced, is the more channels you have, the more the sound system disappears. The less individual sections call out to remind you they exist. Instead, what you are left with is you and what is happening on the screen. The sound is just there.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-26-2012 06:56 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great review! I hope some of the non-believers can be convinced. I had pretty much the same opinion when we saw the demos in Vegas but to hear a whole movie mixed with Atmos in mind would be great.

We'll be in Florida this winter so I hope there is an Atmos movie playing at the AMC Pleasure Island 24, I'm hoping to check it out there.l

quote: Mike Olpin
an expensive sound stage
I suppose you meant "expansive" but you are right on the money anyway! [Smile]

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 06-26-2012 11:46 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hearing some great Dolby A this weekend and listening to some Pro-Logic at home (in Pro-Logic not Pro-Logic II) right now, yes, I miss expansiveness.

Can't wait to take a listen.

AJG

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Tom Mundell
Expert Film Handler

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From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 06-27-2012 10:43 AM      Profile for Tom Mundell   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Mundell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the review, Mike! I'm really interested in checking out an Atmos movie myself, I'm hoping they install this in some auditoriums here soon. Now if only AMC would fix the god awful picture in their ETX rooms, or install this in some non-ETX rooms.

Also I hope they keep with advertising which shows are presented in Atmos. I really like the 7.1 presentations I've seen, but it's never advertised so finding them can be a real pain; as this becomes more common (I hope) I don't want to have to do the same guesswork and/or numerous calls to theaters to verify which shows are actually in Atmos.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-27-2012 11:03 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd like to check out a show in Dolby Atmos. For the time being Cinemark's big theater 200 miles away in Plano, TX is the nearest place from here featuring a screen equipped with Atmos.

I was kind of hoping the Warren Theater folks would install Atmos on one or more of the screens at their Moore, OK location. That's just an hour's drive up the turnpike. The Warren folks tend to install better quality gear than one would see in a Cinemark booth, every screen is THX certified and running Dolby Digital Cinema related equipment. The addition of Atmos would seem to be an obvious upgrade.

I think most here agree Dolby Atmos is a groundbreaking change to how movie audio is played. There is no argument about the technology being very cool. For me, the problems with Atmos have to do with certain realities of the movie theater business.

The installation cost and complexity doesn't make Atmos very friendly to average multiplex auditoriums. Bean counting executives at theater chain home offices would be very tempted to have Atmos installed in minimal configurations and then do nothing to inform customers about the minimal configuration versus a fully tricked out Atmos rig in another auditorium or a rival theater. That could sour some customers on Atmos pretty fast, especially if they have to pay extra to hear a movie presented in the format.

Sound system maintenance is a real problem at many movie theaters. Add to that the compromises made with many houses when they were being designed, built and equipped. Dolby Atmos will demand a much greater commitment from theater operators to keep the sound system working in top form at all times. Elements of dialog and sound effects being panned across the screen and around the room in 3D space won't sound so well if certain speakers have blown drivers no one bothered to fix.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Toledo, OH USA
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 - posted 06-27-2012 01:07 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps Atmos itself will bring more attention to sound related issues, and keep it on the cinema's radar more than it is now. I wish it at least.

Of course I could wish in one hand and crap in the other, and see which gets filled first.

AJG

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 06-27-2012 01:28 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I went back for a second screening, and in between shows, I spoke with the on-site Dolby tech, who was supervising each performance. We spoke for about 40 minutes.

He did confirm that the installation at West Plano has over 50 discrete channels connected. He also confirmed my suspicion that when Atmos engaged, it used a separate, and in my opinion much better, EQ profile.

The floating leaf trailer was made for Dolby by Pixar.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 06-27-2012 02:57 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd really like to know the file size differences between a movie soundtrack in Dolby Atmos versus that of a standard 24-bit 48kHz uncompressed Linear PCM 5.1 soundtrack. My guess is the Atmos files would be quite a bit larger since they are fundamentally more similar to a Pro Tools audio project with many floating/layered sound objects.

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Marc D Fishman
Film Handler

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From: Burbank CA. USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted 06-30-2012 11:43 AM      Profile for Marc D Fishman   Email Marc D Fishman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Sound system maintenance is a real problem at many movie theaters. Add to that the compromises made with many houses when they were being designed, built and equipped. Dolby Atmos will demand a much greater commitment from theater operators to keep the sound system working in top form at all times. Elements of dialog and sound effects being panned across the screen and around the room in 3D space won't sound so well if certain speakers have blown drivers no one bothered to fix.
One of the great things about Atmos is that it is "aware" if there is a speaker issue and will take that speaker out of the system and use the adjacent working speakers, just as it would scale to a theater with smaller playback systems.

In addition, if a speaker or processor failure is detected, the exhibitor will get a notification (i.e. email) from the system alerting them to the issue.

quote: Mike Olpin
He did confirm that the installation at West Plano has over 50 discrete channels connected. He also confirmed my suspicion that when Atmos engaged, it used a separate, and in my opinion much better, EQ profile.

The floating leaf trailer was made for Dolby by Pixar.

The other benefit is that you get the new EQ for a 5.1 or 7.1 playback (my understand is there is an "overlay" string to account for the array configuration in such situations.)

Gary Rydstrom did the sound design/editorial duties for the Leaf trailer... my understanding is that it was audio first and then Pixar animated to that..

There is also a second Atmos trailer (which I thought was really cool.. much more aggressive and "bigger") that is currently only playing at the El Capitain.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

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From: Bloomington, IN, USA
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 - posted 06-30-2012 12:26 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is Atmos "aware" at all times, including playback, or only during a diagnostic mode?

If it depends on someone initiating tests, then it's only going to be as aware as the user allows it to be.

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Marc D Fishman
Film Handler

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From: Burbank CA. USA
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 - posted 06-30-2012 04:38 PM      Profile for Marc D Fishman   Email Marc D Fishman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Manny Knowles
Is Atmos "aware" at all times, including playback, or only during a diagnostic mode?

If it depends on someone initiating tests, then it's only going to be as aware as the user allows it to be.

I actually can't answer that definitely because I didn't ask.

However, I can surmise that there is active feedback due to the networked nature of distributing sound from the processor to the speakers in the auditorium.

At this point, and since there is no real booth hardware to speak of, we will have to wait and see what happens, and what may or may not change, once the final hardware is ready to be rolled out for permanent installations.

All in all, I'm am really excited at the creative possibilities, and hope this kind of active feedback helps keep systems running as designed.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 07-01-2012 11:43 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find it a bit odd we hear of Atmos installations, but no Atmos hardware is visible on Dolbys site. Are these all prototype installations?

I am writing this specifically because I get the idea Dolby launched Atmos earlier than originally planned. Maybe they have been taken by surprise by the Auro 3D and immSound announcements? The december release of Cinematechnology, covering Auro3D, mentioned a demo of a new Dolby surround sound system at Dolby UK HQ in october 2011 - but it was just a simpler discrete 9.1 and 11.1 channel approach like Auro3D.

Maybe Dolby thought they would loose too much market to Barco and immSound by waiting any longer to release the product?

- Carsten

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