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Topic: rant on stupid customers

Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 09-23-2016 09:29 AM

I fail to understand why they are calling them chip and PIN cards. I never have to input a PIN after inserting the card. This leaves open the possibility that if I lose the card anyone finding it could use it. What am I missing?

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-23-2016 09:44 AM

We have a pin reader now. We've only had a few times when the reader has asked for a pin. Leads me to believe the card user has to activate the pin feature.
Of course, the pin cards take much longer to process, and asking for the pin makes it an even longer procedure.
Cash is a fine thing.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 09-23-2016 04:20 PM

I found this on Visa's website:

In most cases, you’ll sign for credit purchases and either sign or enter your PIN for debit purchases — just like you do today. You may not be required to do either for certain types of transactions involving relatively small purchase amounts.

Great security huh?

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 09-23-2016 05:48 PM

I use a Mastercard and an American Express card for most of the stuff that I buy since I get a cash refund applied to my bill by doing so.

Many places have something call "Tap" that works by putting the credit card on the surface of the card reader for less than a second, the reader goes "beep" and that's all that is required. The receipt prints and I'm on my way. "Tap" works only up to certain amounts and I don't know who sets the amount. If your purchase is over that amount, you have to insert your card in the slot and enter your PIN.

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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010

posted 09-23-2016 08:55 PM

quote: Rick Raskin
I fail to understand why they are calling them chip and PIN cards. I never have to input a PIN after inserting the card. This leaves open the possibility that if I lose the card anyone finding it could use it. What am I missing

Most countries use chip and pin which is the more secure usage of the chip system. Each transaction requires your pin which makes it much more difficult to fake (like your argument, if anyone finds your card now they could use it, with a pin that isn't possible).

However the US banks/card issuers opted to go with chip/signature which is only more secure in that it prevents most man in the middle attacks (credit card skimmers) however we won't see much benefit of this until we switch completely to chip readers and no one uses the magnetic stripe anymore. The main culprit of skimmers, gas stations, should switch over shortly, once that occurs there should be a decrease in credit card fraud. The US didn't think consumers were smart enough to remember pins for their cards and thought they would see it as a hassle so they went with signature instead which theoretically is secure but no cashier is actually going to check it.

*edit*

As frank's post above, our great neighbor has chip/pin but also has NFC cards which is similar to apple/android pay in which you can tap the card to pay, I believe the limit is $25 for most cards. Also an awesome system that was not implemented in the US (unless you count the huge failure that was mastercard paypass)

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Andy Bundy
Film Handler

Posts: 9
From: New Bremen, Ohio, USA
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 09-24-2016 02:37 PM

In regards to the credit cards, I've had two or three customers come in and the chip in their card has either been worn to the point that it's unusable, or the other one just kind of popped out and had to be held together when setting it in the card reader (I feared it'd get stuck, but it didn't).

The card reader we have allows you to swipe it after it fails the chip reader 2-3 times. It might just be whoever manufactures the cards, but the one I knew only has had the card maybe a year maybe two.

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1100
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 09-24-2016 05:46 PM

quote: Manny Montes
The US didn't think consumers were smart enough to remember pins for their cards

There we go, dumb it down to the lowest level. That seems to be the trend in the US these days.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-24-2016 08:22 PM

quote: Manny Montes
The US didn't think consumers were smart enough to remember pins for their cards and thought they would see it as a hassle

The second part of the sentence is the reason. The first part makes no sense, since people in the US and everywhere else remember tons of PINs, passwords, usernames and access codes every day.

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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010

posted 09-26-2016 10:34 PM

Except there is no "forgot my password" when you're at the checkout at the grocery store and forgot your pin. Trust me, this happens more than you think with debit cards and people lose their minds. You'd think a 4 digit number is easy to remember but then remember that it would be for every single credit card anyone owned including those one off "store cards" people have. Some of my cards allow me to set my pin and some don't and they are assigned. I absolutely believe most of the general public is too stupid to remember their pins. In fact many don't even remember their passwords and have them written down on a notepad or sticky note on their computer.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 11-04-2016 09:47 PM

I've been in many stores that have chip readers that don't work. You put a card in, it reads the chip and then it tells you to swipe anyway. I've also been in many stores that have an Apple Pay reader that doesn't work. Or it does work, but takes far longer and makes you enter a PIN and a signature (and having to respond to questions about whether you want cash and also entering a "club" number). Way too long a transaction, especially for Apple Pay, which is supposed to have been a very fast process. The industry needs to get its act together. IMO, this was a very poor implementation.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 11-05-2016 06:38 PM

I wish card reader manufacturers would standardize the user interface.

For example- - some readers ask:

Cashback?
[ Yes ] [ No ]

On Others it's:

Cashback?
[ No ] [ Yes ]

I wish they'd standardize on one way or the other.

(Yeah, I know- - the world is full of things like famine & war, but I
get all riled up over the interrogatory order on a user interface.
Go figure....) [Confused]

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-05-2016 08:20 PM

Jim,

Not to feel so bad. There are two Speedway stations with convenience stores inside. They have exactly the situation you describe. Both the Iced Cap machines and the coffee cream dispensers have the contents reversed from left to right. Being a creature of habit, one could easily get the wrong item from these dispensers.

They now have two new frozen soda machines. You guessed it, the contents are reversed between the two stores.

Is this some new marketing thing they are teaching in college?

Confused (on purpose?)

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-05-2016 09:09 PM

quote: Martin McCaffery
We have a pin reader now. We've only had a few times when the reader has asked for a pin. Leads me to believe the card user has to activate the pin feature.

I think it's retailer-related. Most places I shop that can read chips ask for the PIN, but a few don't. The one that sticks in my mind is Trader Joe's: even if the amount is quite high, I can't remember their card readers ever asking me to enter my PIN. The nearest gas station to my home (which is also the cheapest for miles around, apart from no name ones that sell non-Top Tier gas, so I almost always fill up there) sometimes does, sometimes doesn't.

quote: Kenneth Wuepper
Is this some new marketing thing they are teaching in college?

I haven't experienced this in the US (yet), but in Britain, the big supermarket chains have a policy of making subtle changes to the layout of their stores every few months, so that regular shoppers are forced to look at things they would otherwise not be interested in, rather than just heading straight for the items they buy regularly.

They don't do anything radical like move the frozen food freezers from one end of the store to the other, but they will do things like swap coffee and tea with herbs and spices two aisles away. The thinking is that this process will tempt customers to buy new things that they find while looking for their old favorites, which will then become part of their regular shop. The Tesco I used to shop at did this probably around twice a year, and if it wasn't for the fact that the other chains did it too, I'd have gone somewhere else in protest.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-05-2016 09:29 PM

The grocery store I go to rearranges the furniture it seems every 18 months. It's not subtle. Today for instance I went looking for the tuna fish and there were chocolate bars instead. I'm sure a good portion of the reasoning is to keep you going through the aisles so you will impulse shop. Another could be the results of surveys that say putting certain foods near each other increases sales.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-11-2016 02:46 PM

There is a fine art/inexact science to how grocery stores are laid out. Several times in the past my local grocery store (wherever that happened to be at the time) was bought out by new owners. Besides spiffing things up a bit, the first thing they always do is re-arrange everything in the store. There is a lot of market research/big data that grocery stores use to try and optimize their layout. Grocery carts/baskets sometimes have RFID chips in them so that shoppers patterns can be studied. If you have a loyalty card all that data get tabulated too - what items do you buy together, what days of the week do you typically buy them on, etc.

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