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Author Topic: Union Projectionists Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-07-2005 11:17 PM                       Jim, All we have is your writing and its tone which is decidedly hostile, closed minded and offensive. I'm not a Union organizer as you seem to assume. (Not all folks with the name Chavez are). I've been on both sides of the fence. I run a small company and I like to have control of my destiny as much as the next guy or company for that matter. Laws are written to try and bring justice and equity for everyone. If you read any labor history it Henry Ford and others who practiced extreme intimidation to control the labor force, including machine guns and guard towers. Ford also used the tactic of paying more than prevailing wages to his workers to keep them loyal. Ultimately, the employer lost the battle to have absolute control of the workplace so I guess it was not entirely about the hourly wage. In this country owners are not lords and workers can form co-ops, guilds and unions to further their common aims. Do unions break the law at times? Of course. Do corporations or even our own government break the law?  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 04-07-2005 11:22 PM                       Message deleted. [ 04-17-2005, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Tim Reed ]  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-08-2005 02:56 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag ...but people are not property (now that slavery is gone) ....yet, unfortunately there are some business who would still love to have that power of slavery to be somewhat legal by having their employees as their "property" - not trusting them at all when they get hired and keeping them in a certain frame of mind like if they were rats in a cage. Just pay them as little as possible for as much as they can get out of them. And the results of this operation is a dead end business that doesn't allow any employee to be trusted, not to gain any knowledge, not to gain pride and respect, and succed in in their repective departments....just to be a "slave" in the company doing that one certain task that they have been assigned to and be micromanaged as such. Is that dictatorship, or Communism...by any chance? -Monte  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 04-08-2005 07:37 AM                     Labor Unions in the United States were really started by the Jewish and Italian immigrants in the late 19th - early 20th Century. Their intent was to ensure safe working conditions and fair salaries for their members. The Triangle Shirt-Waist tragedy comes to mind. Unfortuantely, Organized Crime entered the picture and at times fought on both the Union as well as the Employeers side, depending on where their financial interess laid. When Sam is referring to Henry Ford, is is of course speaking about the notorious Harry Bennett. Historically speaking...and not intending to start a "political" discussion, the down-turn of Labor Union influence began in the Ronald Reagan era, with his firing of the US FAA Air Traffic Controllers...which has paved the way for the current situation. Without the infiltration of corruption/Organized Crime, Labor Unions serve many purposes: ensuring decent wages for their members, ensuring safe working enviornments, and ensuring that their members have the required professional skill level for the position held. In todays day and age, fair labor practices are becomming a hot issue: corrupt corporate executives that are bankrupting companies, ever expanding wage gaps between workers and executives, elected officials not wanting to raise minimum wage, jobs going over-seas, etc, etc, etc.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-08-2005 11:39 AM                       Will, It's a little late to avoid a political discussion. I agree with you for the most part, but I don't think the start of unions were confined to the work of Jews and Italians. East Coast miners were largely Irish/Welsh/Polish, etc. There was two organized labor elements, one that essentially worked like a guild representing the interests of skilled tradesmen, and unions organizing "unskilled" workers. This later became formalized as the AFL and CIO that eventually merged.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 04-08-2005 11:49 AM                     The bottom line is that unions are looking out for the welfare of their members. They should not be demonized. I have seen many employers using intimidation and other illegal tactics on their non union employees. In New York, I see the difference between union theaters and non union theaters. There is no comparison.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 04-08-2005 12:13 PM                     I see the difference between union theaters and non union theaters More likely, you are seeing the difference between theatres with full time dedicated operators and those with booth-ushers. While I have no particular love for the IA, anyone who thinks employers are looking out for their employees best interests is delusional, and while certain employers may pay more than the union rate "to keep the union off their property", let's face it, if there was no threat of their employees joining the union, they would not be doing so.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-08-2005 01:22 PM                       Michael, That says it in a nutshell. I would hope there could be closure on this thread.  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Fuentes Mmmm, Dr. Pepper! Posts: 1168 From: Corpus Christi, TX United States Registered: Jan 2004 posted 04-08-2005 03:17 PM                     quote: Mitchell Dvoskin anyone who thinks employers are looking out for their employees best interests is delusional You must be referring to major chain employers, and independent owners who are worthless. I feel my employer looks out for me and my interest the best he can and the union has nothing to do with it. Am I delusional or just a beligerent child as Sam so politely put it, towards someone who disagreed with him?  |  IP: Logged William T. Parr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 823 From: Cedar Park, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-08-2005 04:05 PM                     quote: Jeremy Fuentes Am I delusional or just a beligerent child as Sam so politely put it My vote is Delusional.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-08-2005 05:56 PM                       Did I hit a nerve? Jim has been ragging on the same dogmatic point for weeks now. Even Brad saw fit to admonish him. Everyone has some give and take on this topic except for Jim. Maybe if he posted a picture we could get a better read on where he's coming from.  |  IP: Logged Jim Ziegler Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 753 From: West Hollywood, CA Registered: Jul 99 posted 04-08-2005 06:20 PM                     quote: Sam D. Chavez All we have is your writing and its tone which is decidedly hostile, closed minded and offensive. Sam, I became hostile to the IA the day that IA members detonated two chemical weapons in my theatre. I became closed minded to the IA when people connected to it followed a Cinemark manager home and nearly killed him. Frankly Sam, I was offended by silence of the IA when one of their locals was carrying out this activity. You claim your union is trying to look out for workers. Tell me, was it looking out for the 60 employees on duty at my theatre when chlorine gas started spewing into the air? Was it looking out for its fellow union members - auto workers, tradesmen, etc - who were in the sold out 600 seat auditorium when they put a chemical weapon right by the fire escape? Do I hold individual union members responsible for this? No. But the climate created by union leadership and activites definatly contrbutes to this type of behavior. Do I think the concept of the union is antiquated? Yep. When they were formed, they were necessary, now, as I have maintianed, they are about control. All I have seen from several union members on this thread is nothing but contempt for anyone who dares own a business. I see the mindset that every business owner is out to screw his or her employees. This is the same class envy crap which lead to Soviet communism. If you have a legitimate gripe with a certain employer, then voice it, but to paint business owners as being envious of the days of slavery is absurd. Sam, as a business owner, surely you understand that some jobs are worth more to an employer than others. In the current business situation of this industry, no one can afford to pay booth operators $50k a year. No amount of pickets, strikes, griping, complaning, threats or violence will undo the changes that have been brought on mostly by technological advances. If you look throughout history, how many things that were once trades are now extinct? Blacksmithy comes to mind. Additionally, how many companies have been driven out of business because the unions demands were greater than the company could provide? Eastern Airlines, for example. Sam, as a business owner, how would you respond to a union who demands more than you can give?  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 04-08-2005 06:52 PM                     Jim, I have no contempt for people who own a business. I do though, for people who treat their employees like shit and get away with it. Who is looking out for them? And do you really expect people to voice their complaints. Bullshit. They will hire someone else to replace them. And with the technological advances you talk about, people should be even better trained. With those advances also came mutiplexes. So there isn't less work to do now then before. Theater owners know that they can get away with a shitty presentation and people will come back.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-08-2005 06:59 PM                     Bottom line if a circuit theatre can't afford a dedicated projectionist and a decent income for them they shouldn't be in business  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 04-08-2005 07:05 PM                     That is exactly right, Gordon. We are a union booth. We get payed well, get treated well, treat everyone here well and put on a quality presentation down to the minor details. Because of all that, this theater does well. As long as it continues to use qualified union operators it will continue to do well.  |  IP: Logged

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