|
|
 
|
|
Author
|
Topic: Union Projectionists
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 04-08-2005 07:45 PM
Aw come on people...Jim here is defending the "just give em a pass" policy...I don't know about the rest of you...we just never needed to give away passes at the theatres I've worked at. Why? no lost shows. At the Uptown, when LCE first pressed to go with shared booth...the manager at the time pointed out, the Uptown had the fewest passes/readmits issued of any theatre...in fact no one could recollect having to issue one for any show related incident if any...and that manager had been there for years.
Perhaps, the "quality" of the theatre he is used is such that a proper operation, that is quite profitable, is just something he has not seen.
Nobody here is condoning direct threats or act of personal harm but to say that the theatre owners are clean as a whistle in the big picture is just plain absurd too. Taking away one's livelihood due to union affiliation poses just as real a threat to ones family and future.
As to technology negating the need of projectionists in the modern projection booth...what a silly statement. Technology has done quite little in truth to the showing of movies. The medium of film just won't allow it...it is too fragile. So instead of an operator threading several times...they still have to thread the projector once...but only in a dozen or more theatres...there is more threading going on now with platters than in the heyday of movies. So instead of flipping a motor switch you press a start button...big change there. For a proper presentation, the focus should still be checked every 20-minutes are so...especially in these ultra-short theatres with the big screens and overheated gates.
I don't know your background (that much) or your qualifications to judge technology but mine is decently long in the exhibition business from just about all sides and formal education from an accredited institution in electrical engineering. I have no fear of technology and actually work towards including it more so in society when it actually improves the quality of life. There is very little technology indeed that has been added to the projection booth that one could say has improved quality while reducing labor. Generally, the labor reducers have come with quality reduction too. The biggest technology improvement I've seen in the film theatre really has been in lenses. What Schneider and ISCO have done in the past couple of decades have been amazing considering the rather tiny market they serve and yet have increased their product offering (now with 2.5mm increments). Video actually has a ways to go to catch up.
Automations go back quite a ways, there is nothing new there except now they are microprocessor based rather than cam timers or RC timing circuits. Then again, people still put in cam timer based automations (just ask Kelmar). Cue tape now tells a prox detector rather than make electrical contact (and there are those optical readers out there too) but in generall...no change in decades. Platters are even coming up on 40-years...there is nothing new there...the two most popular platters in the world (Kinoton and Christie) have change realatively little in their concept and operation since they started...both have certainly refined their product and made great advances in speed regulation and such but at the crux of it...if you know how to thread an AW3...it won't take very much effort to figure the original Autowind.
Likewise for the projector manufacturers...how far does the Simplex go? 50+ years? The Century? The C and SA are so close I can't imagine one that doesn't know how to thread one that can't thread the other (an the European machines are similar in that they have evolved)...They are the big part of showing the film...virtually no change in over half a century. Then again, sound went from mono to digital with some now having to keep track of discs that the booth operator didn't have to deal with since Vitaphone.
Come on where is this big technology that has suplanted the need of the projectionist? Only if you lower your standards to think that readmits are okay since not all shows have to go on or that theatres need not show the film in the manner in which it was made. But that really puts someone in the "You suck" thread not this one.
You show me a theatre that doesn't do the business to support full-time projectionists, I'll show you a theatre that probably should not be open as a commercial theatre. These bad theatres give the rest a bad name that hurts everyone.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Charlie Frisby
Film Handler
Posts: 58
From: Guymon, Ok USA, org. from DFW
Registered: Dec 2004
|
posted 04-08-2005 08:58 PM
With the way that things are going, the only hope a union has is to have the backing of the studios. Perhaps only releasing some films onpening week if they have a union member or at least a licensed projectionist in the booth. However this is very unlikely.
As long as a theater manager will pay to rent film, the film companies will send the film to its doom if they have to.
I just love movies, and presenting them the way i want to see them presented is my goal. The only future i have in this is that my wages pay for my college. After i graduate i am sure the only time i will see a booth is when i ask a manager to let me go upstairs to fix the problem the $5.15 an hour kid up stairs makes. Fact is, I was him, and at one point we where all screw ups scratching film, and trowing prints. My goal as a projectionist is to know that i taught another kid like myself, who loves this job, to respect the film, and the presentation. So until I graduate i will learn everything I know about the systems and motors and everthing that makes movies rock so much.
Maybe I'm just hyped from my promotion and raise, but i cant think of another poor paying job i would rather have in college...other than a porn star, or a beer tester, or a pizza inspector.
I kinda got off subject but yeah, if grosses keep diclining like they are, the future looks bad.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
|
posted 04-08-2005 09:13 PM
quote: Gordon McLeod
Bottom line if a circuit theatre can't afford a dedicated projectionist and a decent income for them they shouldn't be in business
Gord, My theatre can't afford a 50k a year operator. Granted, we are an indy, but does that mean you think I should shut it down right now? Even without that 50k a year operator, I still have great presntations, and the audience for this small town theatre do constantly give us high marks on our film presentation. But you are telling me I have no right to be in business because this small town doesn't do the leve of business necessary to meet your income standards for projectionists?
quote: Richard May
As long as it continues to use qualified union operators it will continue to do well.
I think you will do well as long as you have qualified, quality minded people, regardless of whether or not they have a card in their pocket... That is, until AMC builds a 30 plex across the street.. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote: Steve Guttag
Aw come on people...Jim here is defending the "just give em a pass" policy...I don't know
Actually, I'm not.. There are three things I emphasize around the theatre - Quality Presentation, Clean Facilities and Quality Customer Service.
quote: Steve Guttag
Perhaps, the "quality" of the theatre he is used is such that a proper operation, that is quite profitable, is just something he has not seen.
Actually, I am running a good operation here. Do we have areas in which we need to approve? Of course. At the same time my theatre is in a town of 20,000 and is a 6 screen slope house. The next town over, there is an all staduim 6 screen. 15 minutes from me in Fresno is a Regal 16. 25 minutes from me is a Regal 21 that is the 20th highest grossing theatre in the U.S. All that, and not only are we holding our own, but we are building attendance.
In fact, the last 2 customer comment cards I recieved had comments like "very well run" and "We no longer go to Fresno for movies"
quote: Steve Guttag
Nobody here is condoning direct threats or act of personal harm but to say that the theatre owners are clean as a whistle in the big picture is just plain absurd too. Taking away one's livelihood due to union affiliation poses just as real a threat to ones family and future.
Did I ever advocate firing people because of union membership? I also never said that all chains are innocent as well. What I have said, however, is that I can see how, for many theatres, operating under union contracts with union wage scales can severly damage an operations profitability. I also am a firm believer that I can take a college student and turn them into one hell of an operator without the presance of a union or union training.
quote: Steve Guttag
As to technology negating the need of projectionists in the modern projection booth...what a silly statement. Technology has done quite little in truth to the showing of movies.
Xenon bulbs.. Automation.. Platters.. Non-Nitrate film stocks.. Those were some pretty big innovations that made the operation of a booth simplier and much less dangerous.
quote: Steve Guttag
There is very little technology indeed that has been added to the projection booth that one could say has improved quality while reducing labor.
Actually, labor per screen has been reduced. One operator could not run 10 2k changover screens, but can run 10 platter screens.
quote: Steve Guttag
Come on where is this big technology that has suplanted the need of the projectionist? Only if you lower your standards to think that readmits are okay since not all shows have to go on or that theatres need not show the film in the manner in which it was made. But that really puts someone in the "You suck" thread not this one.
The point I was trying to make is that projection has moved away from being a dangerous job to one that is not dangerous and that, while technical, is one that can be taught to a quality minded college student, or even a mature high school student, in a shorter period of time than in the past.
quote: Sam D. Chavez
It is clear you were scarred from the experience you went through. If you continue to be bitter and closed minded, you should seek some kind of help. Hate eats up your insides.
I wouldn't say I was scarred.. I don't cringe when an engineer with an IA card in his wallet showed up..
quote: Sam D. Chavez
I could even make the case that management is treating people in your position like cannon fodder and are not ensuring you are protected in the middle of a strike action.
Thats the thing Sam, it wasn't a strike, as Cinemark never had a contract with them to begin with. This was retaliation for Cinemark using their own people. Second, the local in question was in Chicago, the attack was on my theatre in Kansas City - 8 hours away. Union members also attacked several other Cinemarks as far away as Dallas.
Really, I can't fault the company. We had off-duty police for security, and had been briefed on the nature of the threat. That briefing is what prevented serious injuries. Of the two devices left - they were left in theatre cups btw - one was put in a hallway trashcan and one was put next to the fire escape of a sold out 600 seat theatre. The hallway one detonated first and, due to the briefing, the staff knew what is was and took quick action and had the 600 seater evacuated before the device went off.
quote: Sam D. Chavez
I was directly involved in the lockout by UA and Syufy Theatres in 1976. Guess what? Our business agent received documented and recorded death threats on himself and his parents down to knowing where they lived all th way across the country.
Such behavior is beyond the bounds of what is acceptable. Hopefully, those responsible were brought to justice.
quote: Sam D. Chavez
I've flown all the airlines, and you can almost smell bad labor-management relations. Southwest is almost all union, morale is very high and it seems to be the only airline making money and not asking for givebacks from its employees.
I would say that has much more to do with the culture of Southwest than the fact that their people are unionized. I am a firm beleiver in treating your personnel well.
quote: Sam D. Chavez
Back to specifics, the only thing I want from a theatre is a good experience. Theatres charge pretty much the same whether there is a professional in the booth or the snack bar attendant. How come?
Honestly, I would say you have to look at the theatre as a whole. Right now, I am running an indy theatre for the first time - my prior experiece was in circuits. When I got here, no one knew much at all about running a booth - includig the owners. At oen point, they had some sharp people, but attrition took its toll, training of new people slipped, and a lot of knowledge was lost. The owners, while they don't know projection, recoginzed the problem they had, which is a large part of why did a nationwide search for a GM. I got this job in large part due to my booth skills. Since then, I have been trying to kick the entire operation into shape, but have made the most progress in the booth. I still have a ways to go to hit perfection, but the difference is now night and day..
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
|
posted 04-08-2005 10:18 PM
quote: Brad Miller
How many managers do you have on staff, and what are they paid? Often I see theaters with an abundance of managers, yet without a professional in the booth.
Besides myself, there is one salaried maanger and three hourly. We are overstaffed on hourlys, but they have been taking over staff shifts to make up hours. The salaried was a new additon to my staff - he was brought on for a number of reasons, not the least of which was to free me up so I can have more time to tweak the booth operations. Also, the guy we brought in is very strong on teaching sales skills to concessionists (something I am bad at), so I expect him to more than pay his salary by the uptick in sales.
quote: Brad Miller
Yes you are correct. So assuming we did not have these specific 4 advances in the booth, a 15 plex would require 15 projectionists! Yet because the technology IS there, you can now hire one professional to run all 15. What's the problem? I can guarantee you that one guy running 15 fully automated platter auditoriums will work HARDER than one guy running a single screen booth from the 40s.
But is that operator running the 15 screens worth 50k a year? Really that depends on their level of skill, the payroll abilities of the theatre, cost of living in the area, etc.. IF we are talking about a 15 screen in New York City that does 1.5 million people a year, then 50k is not unreasonable for a knowledgeable head projectionist. If we are talking a 15 screen in a mid size city that does 300,000 a year in attendance, then 50k is probably beyond what the theatre can pay. The same restrictions also apply to GMs. If you are the GM of a high level theatre you will make more than the GM of a similar size but low volume theatre.
quote: Sam D. Chavez
At last we totally agree on something. Regarding Sounthwest Airlines; Here is a situation where a company has a thriving culture in spite of having to negotiate with a union advocating for working condtions and wages.
I never said you could not have a good company culture with a union in place. I think what we are seeing with Southwest is a committment on the part of the company's leadership to provide a positive working environment for their staff - environments that always lead to higher productivity, higher customer satisfaction and higher profitibility.
Company's that treat their workers bad, union or not, shoot themselves in the foot. Companies that inspire their people to do the best they can, like Southwest, enjoy success, union or not.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kevin Wale
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 167
From: Guymon, OK USA
Registered: Aug 2003
|
posted 04-08-2005 10:50 PM
quote: Charlie Frisby
With the way that things are going, the only hope a union has is to have the backing of the studios. Perhaps only releasing some films onpening week if they have a union member or at least a licensed projectionist in the booth. However this is very unlikely.
It's impossible. This is a country in a big deregultating trend. Ask the trucking companies if they'd like to go back to the limited permit days. lol
The only way unions are going to get a real presense again is if the various workforces feel there is a need. One has to join a union before it is helpful to them, and one has to see the need for a union to join.
The average person is used to the unions they see in old movies or they are used to working where unions force them to join to work at x, y, or z place. When I worked at Homeland... I had to pay union fees even though they never did anything for Homeland employees except negotiate pay cut after pay cut.
It's a two edged sword... The people have to want unions, but the unions need to be effective. If all unions were like the pro athlete's unions, we'd all be looking for one to join. lol
The Movie Theatre Business Book says that you should budget 50% film rental fees. Yeah right. With a great booker and keeping film companies paid every week 52% is darn good and most people see more like 55%. That's a big deal if you are grossing a million dollars a year in ticket sales alone or more... We're talking about unions for projectionists... what about unions for theatres? LOL
quote: Charlie Frisby
I kinda got off subject but yeah, if grosses keep diclining like they are, the future looks bad.
It's not really the grosses that are declining, it's the expenses rising. Some of that is our fault (Exhibition side) and some is thier fault (distribution side.)
[ 04-09-2005, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Wale ]
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic