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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-16-2007 11:43 AM

Gee Bill,

I might just see you there... that would make for three HD players in my house..... Still have not had time to do a Blew Ray/ HD comparison on the DP-100 Brad but that is comming up this Monday. I don't expect to be able to see any real marked difference between the two either!!

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-16-2007 11:49 AM

Oh if you can hear the difference between the various digital formats, you can certainly see the difference between HD and BluRay.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 11-16-2007 01:09 PM

Was that sarcasm?

Disclaimer:

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-16-2007 01:35 PM

What is the local storage for? Why would I need to access the internet while watching a movie? Why do these things try to be everything?

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 11-16-2007 02:46 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
Just because it is in print doesn't make it right...the person that wrote that article, is dead wrong. 1080i has half the information of 1080p, period. There is quite literally a doubling of picture quality to be had by using a 1080p source on a 1080p device.

I agree that 1080i isn't the same as 1080p when the original source material is 1080i.

In the case of HD DVD and Blu-ray, the source material on the disc is 1080p at 24fps. Both formats are identical in that regard. In HD DVD players and Blu-ray players that output 1080p, the 1080p24 -> 1080p60 or 1080p30 or 1080p24 is being done internally by a chip. You are not getting the video stream straight off the disc. The video on the disc must be mixed with the menu video, display information, secondary video display, etc. that the player is generating, so you are not seeing the same data that was on the disc in an unadulterated fashion.

The point of the articles I linked to in my Help Documentation is that if an HD DVD or Blu-ray player is outputting 1080i, it just means that the deinterlacing of the signal is being done inside the TV instead of inside the player. Is the chip in the TV better than the one in the player? Maybe, maybe not.

Some bargain TV's do a crappy job at deinterlacing. If someone has such a display, then they need to compensate for saving money on that display by spending some money on the upper level player that has the deinterlacing chip. Fortunately, the current price difference between the HD-A3 (doesn't have the chip) and HD-A30 (does have the chip) is less than $100.

I don't believe the article to be wrong. They've had plenty of time to be proven wrong by others in the field, as well as manufacturers and high-strung enthusiasts, and no retraction has been made. I've also seen this point made by others outside of Home Theater Magazine, so I don't think it's a problem of an inaccurate source. Is it possible? Maybe, but the explanation makes sense to me.

quote: Joe Redifer
What is the local storage for? Why would I need to access the internet while watching a movie? Why do these things try to be everything?

Local storage can be used to store bookmarks (where you can save points in the movie that can be referenced from the "Scenes" menu, for example), it can be used to store video clips downloaded from the Internet (Transformers did this in the extras, where you could download video footage), and it can be used by the player to remember movie-specific settings (such as which language/audio track you prefer, which menu theme you like).

If Blu-ray players had large enough storage and an Internet connection, they could have issued a fix for the framing issues for the Pirates movie that was released. The player could download those 8 minutes and play the fixed sequence during that part of the movie. Other examples of using the storage include additional audio tracks that didn't exist when the movie was released (to support a possibly infinite number of languages for audio and/or subtitles), as well as purchased downloads related to a particular movie (I would like to see them do this with isolated film scores, but it probably won't ever be done).

quote: Brad Miller
The Samsung 1400 IS 1.1

They are also amazingly cheap at amazon.com

I got excited when I came across this the other day as well. I wasn't aware that Samsung (or anyone) had released a player that had an ethernet jack and was Profile 1.1 / Final Standard Profile / Bonus View compatible. On top of all that, the price was great!

Unfortunately, it's not a 1.1 player, and the comments that I've read about this player have not been positive whatsoever. Many tales of the player just shutting down half way through a movie, not being able to connect to Samsung for updates, and no ETA from Samsung for fixes. People are returning them for lesser-equipped players just so they can have some stability.

That's too bad, as I was excited for about an hour that there was finally a Blu-ray player I'd be willing to buy. [Frown]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-16-2007 05:08 PM

Ah, so the storage space is so they can rush movies to market without quality control and fix them later. Awesome. Also, why not just put downloadable footage, I dunno, on the disc itself? Oh wait, that is too logical.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-16-2007 07:45 PM

Apparentyly there are ALOT of problems with the Samsung BDP-1400. Yous guys might wanna check out THIS thread before you buy one.... They appear to be cheap for a good reason and they say they only work a little bit better after the latest firmware upgrade is done. Some 1.1 disks won't play at all.

Mark

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-16-2007 09:41 PM

First time a player shuts down in the middle of a movie on me, I take my own very special proprietary tool to it -- a 30 pound fire ax, bringing it down directly in the center of the its Hi-Def damned soul. It also helps if you let out a high pitched blood curdling yell as you follow through with the swing. Have you any idea how good it feels to deal with a recalcetrant piece of hardware with this marvelous tool? [evil]

Trust me, you will forget about the fact that you didn't get to see the end of the movie...you will feel much, MUCH better. It also garners much respect from family and friends who witness you making the fix; I've seen it in their eyes. [thumbsup]

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 11-16-2007 10:56 PM

Profile 2.0 sounds like it could possibly be fixed via firmware. The new Samsung duo player will have the 1gig of memory, however only be a profile 1.1 player. With a quick flash, I'm guessing it can be 2.0. This seems like the player to get. I'm not to crazy about my player jumping on the internet. When it comes time to back-up my movies on a burnable blu-ray disc, I heard it migght be possible for the player to get shut down if something out there detects that you have a "bootleg" disc playing. I can see the 2nd video decoder and memory have lots of different uses, I only bad uses for the internet.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-16-2007 11:57 PM

I will never connect a dedicated movie player to the internet. Who knows what info that thing would be sending back home (though I'm sure it'd depend on the disc).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-18-2007 08:41 AM

quote: Frank Dubrois
I heard it migght be possible for the player to get shut down if something out there detects that you have a "bootleg" disc playing. I can see the 2nd video decoder and memory have lots of different uses, I only bad uses for the internet.

Frank,

Now you're sounding like Joe! If you're worried about that just pull the net connection while you watching your bootleg! With Blew Ray burners still at around $900.00 to 1K, it will be some years before you're doing that.

Mark

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Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-18-2007 09:51 AM

If you're talking about stand alone burners you may be right, but you can buy external (or internal, I forget) Blu Ray burners for a Mac (and probably PC too) for around $500.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-18-2007 10:25 AM

Scott...the article makes several mistakes...first is the CRT can only do an interlace display...no it CAN do an interlace display, digitals really can't...there is a difference. I think the author is tripping up on that one that since all digital displays must work with progressive, he concludes that all will be put to rights when it hits the screen....a false presumption.

If the material is stored on the disc as 24p...there is really one operation to do to get it to the display...either have the monitor switch to 48 or 72Hz to display each image 2 or 3 times or go through a 3:2 pull down conversion. Note, this is not the same as interlace versus progressive. A 3:2 pull down conversion going from progressive to progressive involves how many times each image is shown...but the entire image is shown each time. Once you cut the image in half by interlacing, you also introduce timing issues...having the image is moving at one time...on a 3:2 conversion of an interlaced image has a frame with half of the old image and half of the new image...even the references from the articles show this...when the screen has half of one image with half of the the other and there is motion involved...you will get jutter...digital images or no. To say it is a matter of deinterlacing in the display or the player is wrong...if the image is progressive on the disc and it is progressive out of the player it remains progressive. Why must it EVER be cut up and interlaced at all if both systems can work with progressive?

BTW...have you compared progressive to interlaced on movies? If not...do so and report back.

Steve

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-18-2007 05:30 PM

I went shopping for a new HD-DVD or Blue Ray system. I found out that all the HD-DVD systems available really don't support a coax wire sound cable. Only optical cable. The Blue Ray systems have both hookups. So with the HD-DVD systems, can only use an optical sound cable for 5.1 sound. This is a problem for me since the projector is in the booth and the sound system is about 12 ft away in the theater itself. I need a 12 ft optical cable for $130. Even the shorter optical cables are expensive.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-18-2007 07:24 PM

Larry... are you off your rocker. You have two choices... decode the L/R signal with your Dolby Pro Logic decoder thingy or get an optical to coax convertor. I have onoe of those convertors around here someplace.... The audio D to A convertor in the HD players are awsome and may very well be better than the D to A in your Dolby pro logic thingy!!! The D to A in my HD-A2 was far superior to the D to A's my Pioneer Elite CD/SACD player.

Mark

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