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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?
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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 12-03-2007 02:01 AM
I'm not saying Disney is bad at all...in fact, I like Disney. What I am saying is that having Disney, Fox, etc etc ALL together makes Blu-Ray stronger. If they were to get Fox to release the Star Wars movies and Alien movies, and maybe have Disney release some its big time animated classics, HD-DVD would be done. Star Wars, would be the real kicker. Out of all of the movies out there, it has more influence over more people than any Disney movie or any Rings movie made. Some people don't like George Lucas so they won't agree based on their hatred for him. I like him. I don't agree with some of the things he's done with his movies, but either way, the guy created something with world wide appeal. Release something with that much appeal that reaches so many people, and you have something really powerful.
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Mark J. Marshall
Film God
Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 12-03-2007 03:43 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
How do you explain the 20th Century Fox logos on all the previous video releases, including all of those DVDs?
Sorry, I meant that Fox can't just decide to release them. I didn't mean "release" as in which company is "distributing" the disks, but as in who controls whether or not this particular group of films will be released.
quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm sure Fox is already pestering George Lucas about it.
Right. Because it's not their call. That's what I meant.
quote: Bobby Henderson
I think it will take at least several years for that to happen, if ever.
I think it will happen, but taking several years if probably true.
quote: Frank Dubrois
If the Indiana Jones movies came out for HD-DVD, I'd consider getting a player to play them, if I didn't already have a duo player.
You wouldn't have to. Spielberg movies are exempt from the Paramount deal. They could be released in either format. And since he prefers Blu-Ray, well.... see Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-03-2007 08:46 PM
quote: Joe Redifer
I think the Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS analogy is a bit poor. It wasn't consumers choosing the formats.
The consumers are not exactly getting to choose between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray either. Warner Bros. is the only studio going along with that. If you want a HD-disc of a Disney animated movie, you're going to get it only on Blu-Ray. If you want to watch The 40 Year Old Virgin on a HD disc, HD-DVD is your only option.
That's not very different from the way movie studios released their films with digital sound for movie theaters in the early 1990s. Universal supported only DTS. Buena Vista did Dolby Digital-only for awhile. Columbia/Tri-Star had the SDDS-only approach. Once multi-format and quad-format prints arrived they made it easier for theater opeators to choose a digital sound processor on its own merits rather than the merits of movies exclusively supporting a certain format. Then the systems started selling a lot better, especially Dolby Digital.
Considering the quality control problems Warner Bros. had with its "Total-HD" format (not to mention the data capacity issues as well), it's not practical to make movies accommodate both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on the same disc.
Warner Bros. seems to be the only movie studio willing to tangle with dual inventories of HD discs -to a limited extent (more of their movies are getting released on HD-DVD than Blu-Ray). None of the other studios feel like going there.
That leaves dual format players as the only realistic option to get this stalemated format war solved to a degree where it won't affect customers.
I think Blu-Ray has a number of technical advantages over HD-DVD (higher data capacity, an improved disc surface that is more scratch resistant, etc.). If HD-DVD's limited capacity turns into a big disadvantage on what sorts of materials can be included on the disc then maybe that format will be doomed in the long run.
I'm certainly very suspicious of the 51GB triple layer standard the DVD Forum just approved. Good luck on getting that to work with any existing players. Good luck on replicating discs without a serious number of quality control issues. DVD-18 had problems. HD-DVD/DVD Combo discs have had lots of problems. Total-HD had serious problems. Triple layer HD-DVD discs may suffer the same fate.
quote: Frank Dubrois
Well, if Fox would release the Star Wars movies, then my point would be proven. You haven't proven that the movies wouldn't push blu-Ray to victory.
A Star Wars Blu-Ray release would be irrelevant to the legally binding contracts Univeral, Paramount and Dreamworks have on releasing exclusively on HD-DVD.
Star Wars is also just one movie. And it is an old movie at that. Most people I know who like movies rent and buy movies on disc from every major movie studio. No one is going to do that all in HD without having both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD capability in their home theater system.
quote: Frank Dubrois
You compare Star Wars to Disney. Why? They are different. Disney has a large vault of great animated movies and that's nice. I don't think that having Disney in the Blu-Ray camp is enough to draw people from HD-DVD, however, it is a big help.
That comment is retarded. Disney animated movies are the top selling genre in home video. The Star Wars franchise, while impressive in its own right, doesn't come close to Disney. The Disney/Touchtone catalog is impressive, but if it was enough to kill HD-DVD that would have already happened. Separate movie studios make independent decisions and make money separately from each other.
Your assumptions about what age groups will find Disney movies appealing is also odd. There's lots of people of all ages from infant children to senior citizens who have a high regard for classic Disney animated movies as well as the newest releases from Pixar.
And it's also crazy to suggest few people who like animated movies will care to see them in HD. The person who reviewed Ratatouille at DVD File called it the best looking HD video transfer he's ever seen. It's a reference quality disc. Classic animated Disney movies, such as widescreen classics like Sleeping Beauty and Lady and the Tramp would be wonderful in HD.
quote: Frank Dubrois
With everything Blu-Ray offers NOW, the addition of Fox putting out Star Wars, or the Alien movies would definately seal HD-DVD's fate.
That comment would only make sense if Univeral, Paramount, Dreamworks, Warner Bros. and New Line had no catalog of hit movies. As long those studios care to release their hits exclusively on HD-DVD that format is going to live on despite what gets released on Blu-Ray.
quote: Frank Dubrois
I don't know how they think, so I can't answer. Why did they wait so long to put them out on DVD?
George Lucas delayed the release of the original Star Wars movies on DVD for years because of 2 reasons: He wanted the "prequels" to be finished first so he could mess up the original movies with more digital alterations. And he wanted the installed base of DVD players in the marketplace to be huge in number.
The HD-DVD and Blu-Ray customer bases are TINY. George Lucas isn't going to be offering any Star Wars release to the public until there's at least several million or more Blu-Ray players in use within the United States alone. He's certainly not going to release that movie when there's just a paltry 300,000 standalone players. It may help if Sony moves a lot of Playstation 3 consoles for Christmas. But it seems like X-Box 360 is doing better in terms of quality gaming titles.
quote: Frank Dubrois
I'm not saying Disney is bad at all...in fact, I like Disney. What I am saying is that having Disney, Fox, etc etc ALL together makes Blu-Ray stronger. If they were to get Fox to release the Star Wars movies and Alien movies, and maybe have Disney release some its big time animated classics, HD-DVD would be done.
Again, you're ignoring the movies Universal, Dreamworks, Paramount and Warner Bros. have available to release on HD-DVD. I do agree that Blu-Ray definitely has a more impressive lineup of studio support -especially with Warner Bros. stradling the fence and releasing on both formats. But the titles available exclusively to HD-DVD is nothing to sniff at either. This is why I strongly feel I will need a dual format player (or two single format players) to cover both bases. If Blu-Ray is going to win this "war" it isn't going to happen anytime soon -certainly not within the next 2 years thanks to those exclusive contracts. That leaves everyone stuck dealing with 2 formats.
quote: Frank Dubrois
Exempt? Where did you read that? Close Encounters was released via blu-Ray because it is Columbia Pictures, owned by...SONY.
Spielberg let his preferences be known due to a marketing misfire from Universal Pictures.
I can't remember the specific details of it, but Universal had some kind of marketing promotion going on about HD-DVD and included artwork for Jurassic Park, Back to the Future and some other Spielberg directed and/or produced projects. Spielberg promptly had Universal remove those materials.
AFAIK, the new CETK 30th anniversary edition on Blu-Ray is the only Spielberg movie released in HD so far.
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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 12-04-2007 12:59 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
That comment is retarded. Disney animated movies are the top selling genre in home video.
It's not retarded. I say the Star Wars movies released on Blu-Ray TODAY would shut down HD-DVD. You say no. As much as you think you have proven your point, you have not. I may not be able to prove mine...but then again, it's simply my opinion. No one needs to prove opinion.
quote: Bobby Henderson
A Star Wars Blu-Ray release would be irrelevant to the legally binding contracts Univeral, Paramount and Dreamworks have on releasing exclusively on HD-DVD.
Let me explain this again...this time read slowly as to understand what I'm saying. A Star Wars (the whole trilogy or all six movies) on Blu-Ray would have a HUGE impact on shutting down HD-DVD, and in my opinion, it would be the final nail in the coffin. The other studios, seeing the huge swing in support, would no doubt follow suit. The movie companys go where the money is, we all know that. If people started buying up Blu-Ray players left and right, HD-DVD would be DONE. I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that releasing the Star Wars movies on the Blu-Ray format would cause the dominoes to start tumbling down.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Your assumptions about what age groups will find Disney movies appealing is also odd.
As was your retarded comment about how "old" the Star Wars movies are. Both sets of movies have fans. Let me ask you this, how old is Disney's Dumbo? Now, how old is Star Wars? Their are fans of BOTH and movie age has nothing to do with it. Calling Star Wars new and different for its time, was accurate. WAY back when Dumbo came out, it was probably cutting edge animation. How can you say excitement is there for one, but not the other? They are both old, yet both loved. Both were cutting edge when released, but not any more. Both appealed to a large variety of people THEN and NOW.
quote: Bobby Henderson
That comment would only make sense if Univeral, Paramount, Dreamworks, Warner Bros. and New Line had no catalog of hit movies. As long those studios care to release their hits exclusively on HD-DVD that format is going to live on despite what gets released on Blu-Ray.
They can have their catalogs. If they see people migrating to Blu-Ray, they will find a way to release their movies on the format where they are most likely to be bought. I don't know what is involved in their contract with HD-DVD, so I can't comment on it, however, again, movie companies will go where the money is.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 12-04-2007 09:32 AM
Don't you guys know any history of electronic media? The same thing happened back in the early days of records...some companies were supporting the "LP" format (33 1/3) and others were supporting the 45RPM format. Neither format won out definitively, in fact each found its own niche, so all of the companies released music on both formats. Same will happen with the two new video formats IF enough players are sold. It's all in the players.
Of course this is different in that both of these video formats are performing the exact same function, where the two record formats were doing different things (albums vs singles). But then you can look to the VHS/Betamax war -- again, everyone was putting material out on both formats, until VHS emerged as the clear winner because a ton more players were sold in that format. It was not driven by any movie or series of movies.
I don't understand why the video companies didn't take a lesson from the CD introduction, which was a gigantic success because everyone was on the same page...but I guess they are so busy developing new gadgets that nobody needs, they don't have time to look back and see what happened then.
There's no way that the Star Wars series by itself would cause enough millions of people to go buy enough Blu-Ray players to cause the other studios to topple on this issue. There are lots of Star Wars fans for sure, but most of them like a lot of other movies too, and they're likely to weigh that in their decision whether to jump in or not - or they'll buy dual format players, which will be common pretty soon.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-04-2007 11:40 AM
quote: Frank Dubrois
I may not be able to prove mine...but then again, it's simply my opinion. No one needs to prove opinion.
Opinions need to be backed up with actual logic and facts rather than mere speculation for those opinions to be taken seriously. The claim that Star Wars on Blu-Ray would kill the HD-DVD format is pure, spit-balling speculation. It is a wild guess, one that I don't find very well supported either.
quote: Mike Blakesley
Don't you guys know any history of electronic media? The same thing happened back in the early days of records...some companies were supporting the "LP" format (33 1/3) and others were supporting the 45RPM format. Neither format won out definitively, in fact each found its own niche, so all of the companies released music on both formats.
Thank you for helping me make my point.
To offer a more current analogy, let's talk about the battle between Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo on their gaming platforms. Microsoft has gone through 2 generations of X-Box consoles now. Sony has been through 3 cycles of Playstation consoles. Nintendo has released several gaming platforms. None of them have been able to put each other out of business. Other rivals, like Sega and Atari have fallen. But despite all the fanboy talk over the years on what new console was going to kill everything else, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have managed to sustain their gaming platforms or even succeed very well. Those rival systems aren't killing each other. They're co-existing -just like so many other competing digital technologies in so many other areas.
One key reason why those gaming platforms have survived is each had enough good, unique titles exclusive to it that no one could play anywhere else.
This same thing is occurring with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Sure, Blu-Ray has an impressive lineup of studio support and hit titles. However, there's a lot of significant HD titles available only on HD-DVD as well. Univeral and Paramount/Dreamworks are major studios. And Warner Bros' continued non-exclusive support of HD-DVD still helps that platform.
Another thing I'd like to find out is what will become of the previous Blu-Ray releases from Paramount and Dreamworks. Will their new, exclusive HD-DVD distribution deal also call for the removal of Blu-Ray discs, such as Mission Impossible from store shelves?
quote: Mike Blakesley
I don't understand why the video companies didn't take a lesson from the CD introduction, which was a gigantic success because everyone was on the same page...
It's a little thing called "corporate greed." Cooperation is a very rare thing these days unless there is some larger benefit from it. Nevertheless, the Hollywood studios really shot themselves in the foot by not forcing one unified, single HD disc format to emerge years ago. One upside to this mess is that HDTV related electronics have only recently improved to the point where they can deliver and display HDTV video streams properly. For the previous several years HD has been a mixed bag of compromised lower resolution standards.
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