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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray? (Page 93)

 
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Author Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?
Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-24-2008 02:56 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My roommate/landlord upgraded recently to HDTV with a 50" Samsung LED DLP set in the living room. He's using an HDHomerun dual ATSC tuner combined with an HTPC (which provides another ATSC tuner plus SD and HD PVR capability) to feed the display. Just using good ol' OTA signals from the UHF elements of the existing rooftop antenna. Looking to upgrade the antenna since there's a few too many data stream dropouts even though we're well within the A-contour signal strength area.

Have to say some of the resulting pictures can look pretty good... on a 50" display in a typically-sized living room. But yeah, there are definitely lots of pictures that instantly reveal the levels of data compression being used.

No Blu-ray capability in the living room system yet. Been looking at replacing the DVD drive in the HTPC to accomplish that. But we're both out of work at the moment so Blu-ray will have to wait for a while.

I just spec'd a Panasonic PT-AE2000 projector and PS3 as part of a portable meeting room AV kit project I'm working on. The screen will be a 96x54" 16:9 tripod thing for now. That's probably how I'm going to get my first hands-on experience playing with and evaluating Blu-ray images.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-24-2008 03:29 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
I also have "Alexander" in HD DVD two disc version, I do not see any data compression what so ever in that 2 disc version. My screen size is 3.5x8 ft. Do you know the spec on the Panasonic PT-AE 2000 projector?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-24-2008 04:27 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry,

What your background is certainly impressive...you also seem to quickly gloss over your equipment's lack of capability. Seriously, what harm would it be to run some measured target film and see what it really does.

As to the compact anamorphic...Schneider is certainly my favorite in that form factor but it is by no means anywhere near the best. It is just a 4-element anamorphic that definately does better on shorter focal length lenses than longer ones. It also is about two tiers down from what is current state-of-the-art. The ISCO Blue-Star can tap dance around it by exhibiting greater resolution over the entire picture and also present less chromatic abberations. The net result is a sharper picture from corner to corner. That is, I've put up targets that read 80 l/mm on all targets. In fact, it is rare that I get down to less than 68 l/mm in any target and in those cases, it is always a short throw off-axis with the furthest corner being the weakest...as one would expect. Your prime lens can also be improved upon by more than one manufacturer which would also improve your resolution.

The gate and intermittent design are also rather dated...but again...just measure it all...it can only help make your case, right?

The projection phase of the movie process is the most difficult to get right...you have heat and several optical things (xenon light, reflector, lens(es), screen...etc) plus mechanical obsticles to overcome in projecting the image...ponying up a machine that never could get all of the image off the film (nor could the lenses you use) as an example doesn't show a thing. It reduces your statements to speculation.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-24-2008 04:40 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
The readings you are getting would be about right. I purchased the compact anamorphic because it would focus down to about 10 ft. I have it at 10.5 ft.

I didn't focus it running film through the projector. Rather, focus is set on an optical bench and reversed focused by using a resolution target at the screen. The image was evaluated using a 40x loupe. The best I could do was around 125 l/mm at the image. This is how most factory testing of lenses are down.

You would get the same readings in reverse. That is, running a test film and reading the resolution at the screen. Because of motion, I am sure it would be a little less then the static reading. I know the shutter is in perfect time so the only issue would be how much total dwell you might get using a Devry Super Simplex shutter.

I would run a test film if I had one. I understand that the test film is original camera negative. Most high speed prints are at least 4 generations away. So running a 80 l/mm test film is way different then running some not so well done high speed 4th generation print that is about 15 l/mm.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-24-2008 05:22 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, were you only projecting it in 720p? 1080p has well over twice as many pixels. Was Blade Runner the only movie you tried? How was it connected to the projector?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-24-2008 06:04 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Electronics specialists expect Blu-ray to outpace DVD sales

quote: Susanne Ault - Video Business


MAY 23 | High-end consumer electronics retailers expect set-top Blu-ray players to begin outselling DVD players by August, as a wave of new models eases current supply problems.

Since the format war ended in February, demand for BD players by early adopters has been higher than that for standard DVD at Ultimate Electronics, Crutchfield and Bjorn’s. But there has been too little BD product available for the retailers to realize the format’s potential. The stores believe they should finally have adequate supply by August, as Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips and Pioneer will be launching new BD set-tops.

Samsung’s first picture-in-picture model, the BD-P1500, rolled out at Best Buy this month, and should spread widely at retail soon. Sony’s first BD-Live player, the BDP-S350, and Panasonic’s first BD-Live model, DMP-BD50, will hit stores in July. Pioneer’s BDP-51FD and Elite BDP-05FD, the manufacturer’s first picture-in-picture models, are expected by the July-August frame as well.

Manufacturers, including Panasonic, have said that production hasn’t kept pace with demand because the war ended sooner than expected.

“People have been waiting weeks for Sony players, but it should get better later in the summer,” said Rick Souder, executive VP of merchandise at Crutchfield. “In August, it will be the first time that Blu-ray overtakes [standard DVD] sales for us on a unit basis.”

For some time, revenue on relatively higher-priced BD set-tops has trumped standard DVD at Crutchfield. Currently, the dollar split is 60% Blu-ray and 40% standard.

Besides consumers’ growing confidence in this one high-def format choice, retailers note the February 2009 digital TV transition also is sparking interest in Blu-ray.

“I think HD of any kind is experiencing a lift, as people become more cognizant of the DTV transition,” said Matt Duda, Ultimate Electronics merchandising director of video. “People wonder if they need a new TV, and it’s a great time for retail to capitalize on that. Just getting that footstep in the door is a great way to educate consumers about all high-def products.”

Ultimate Electronics’ BD revenue will surpass that of standard DVD for the first time by August, projects Duda. On a unit basis, BD sales still trail standard DVD at Ultimate.

“There should be a healthy supply by August and [manufacturers] should be caught up in production,” said Duda. “You’re getting five to eight new [BD] players in the market, and you’ll see Blu-ray catching up with standard DVD.”

The retailer is already planning to roll out in-store seminars about the new Panasonic players, as they will represent some of the first set-tops that can access Web content.

With this hardware ramp-up, Bjorn’s will be moving virtually all BD players within its home entertainment area. The upscale San Antonio superstore expects to shift from 70% BD unit sales/30% standard to 90% BD/10% standard by the end of the summer.

Bjorn’s recently carved out a Sony-branded store-within-a-store boutique. But Bjorn’s currently isn’t offering any Sony players. Also troublesome, Bjorn’s owner Bjorn Dybdahl and his team are fond of pumping profits by selling high-def TV and BD hardware together. But the retailer hasn’t been able to offer these bundle deals for much of this year.

“Everyone is trying to assure us the supply is going to get better,” said owner Bjorn Dybdahl. “Right now it’s a hindrance.”

I'm not surprised to see news of this sort. But I think Blu-ray player sales are going to outpace DVD player sales pretty soon for a basic reason this article didn't mention: there is very little profit in selling DVD players.

DVD players are now cheap, loss leader style items. Stores don't make much profit on them. Sales associates aren't going to get any real commission from selling the things either. Ultimately, standard DVD players are just using up shelf space that might be better devoted to newer, more profitable formats like Blu-ray.

With the analog TV broadcast cut-off happening in less than a year and HDTV monitors getting better and better, standard DVD players are not highly desirable things. Everybody has a DVD player already and the only time you need to buy one is if an old player breaks. For most customers in need of a replacement DVD player, it isn't going to be long before they have to buy a Blu-ray player as the replacement.

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 05-24-2008 06:22 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personally like the image from the panasonic ax 100e, I have one for my 16 x 9 foot inflatable screen rig, it is a very impressive image and I doubt if the crowds would care that its not film. I can see what Larry is trying to say. Personally though I cannot help notice how much better the panasonic 2000 looks with its native 1080p resolution

Larry and I do have one major problem with our projector, this model does have a design fault in its Dynamic iris and will probably fail and need to be replaced under warranty, like thousands of others before us, plenty of info in av forums.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-24-2008 09:01 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
I have about 500 hours on the machine and it's always used in total darkness. I am not sure how much the Dynamic Iris is actually in use in total darkness. How will I know when it goes bad? My machine is a AX100U if that means anything.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-25-2008 12:24 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Home Theater People - Panasonic PT-AE2000 specs

Indeed, lots of info and test reviews out there for this little machine.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-25-2008 10:49 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, it wasn't using the 720p output of the player...but it was using 1080i...don't get me started on that...I wanted to convert the HDMI 1080 24p signal directly to HDSDI also at 24p and all digital...but that would have entailed another widget from AJA or Gefen.

Steve

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-25-2008 12:35 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That sounds like that had to be one factor that degraded the quality of the Blu-ray video. The format isn't going to be shown in its best condition unless the monitor or projector can display the video in its native 1080p/24 form and do so at a high refresh rate.

Blu-ray can look pretty incredible on my 52" 120Hz LCD TV. I took my 80GB PS3 to the office so I could hook it up to the 40" flat screen TV we have in our conference room (we had an employee cookout and played some video games afterward; one of my coworkers brought a Nintendo Wii along). Anyway, the Blu-ray video quality was not anywhere near as good as what I could display on my TV at home. With the output set to 1080i there was some strange flicker being displayed. I dropped it down to 720p and the picture looked a lot more steady, but a bit soft. The monitor had some serious lag and pixel smear happening. The picture quality looked about like what I see with lots of LCD-TVs that Wal-Mart sells.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-27-2008 08:18 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking of Wal-Mart I noticed the other day that my local Wal-Mart is revamping it's Blew Ray area from about 1/4 aisle into an entire aisle space. Unfortunately they have also raised the prices on all the Blew Ray disks they carry, some new releases that were $24.95 are now at 27.95! All this price hike to reflect the larger area (and slow sales) it all occupies in the store. Players still range from $328 for the cheapo Magnavox player up to around 500.00 for the most expensive Sony they carry. All in all it's pricing thats way way too high for your average Wal-Mart Shopper and should remain a slow seller for quite some time...

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-27-2008 10:51 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Still trying to use the tired old "blew ray" gimmick? Nice occasion to do since today (May 27) is the last day Warner Bros. is releasing any movies on HD-DVD.

The prices you're quoting are out of whack with what most Wal-Mart locations everywhere else are charging for BD movies and BD players.

The Magnavox branded Funai BD player costs $298. Best Buy is selling a similar Funai player under another brand for $330.

The "$500 Sony" player mentioned (the S300) actually costs $386. Three other models featured in most Wal-Mart Blu-ray displays are the 40GB Playstation 3, Samsung BD-P1500 and Panasonic DMP-BD30. The PS3 still costs $399. The Panasonic player has been reduced in price from $499 to $449. The new Samsung player costs $350.

Those BD player prices should be identical at all Wal-Mart store locations.

As for the movie discs, I saw quite a range of prices -but none of them any higher than what the store was charging previously before the Blu-ray aisle was installed. Most Disney/Buena Vista discs were running $24.95. Fox is charging the most: $29.99. Some Warner Bros., Lionsgate and Paramount discs were priced at $19.99 or $18.99. The store also had a couple old titles, such as Total Recall for $14.95.

Online stores, such as Amazon.com, usually have Blu-ray discs at prices significantly below what Wal-Mart or other retail stores are charging.

For some extra perspective, most of the new release movies on DVD are costing $18.95 to $22.95 at Wal-Mart. Contrary to popular belief, most new releases on DVD do not debut at $15 or lower. Repackaged or remastered catalog titles are usually the only movies arriving on store shelves at such low price points. Releases where the movie first appears on DVD at a low price point, such as The Matrix or Return of the King, is a pretty rare thing. Normally most movies don't get discounted to the $15 or lower level until they've been on store shelves for at least several months and appearing on pay cable channels.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 05-27-2008 12:17 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I concur with Bobby. Calling it "blew ray" is childish at best. It's as useful to the conversation as some of my fellow linux fans who try to degrade Microsoft by referring to them as M$ instead of MS.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 05-27-2008 12:45 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always thought micros~1 was more appropriate.

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