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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-31-2008 11:01 PM

quote: Larry Myers
That's the nice thing about being an individual, we don't have to think alike and we sure don't.

The subject of interframe compression on video material is not a matter of individual thinking and subjective opinion. It's a fact of life on video running under serious limits of bandwidth. Fundamentally, it's a compromise to video, not an improvement. I think Joe put it right. But then he actually works on that kind of thing in his job.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 05-31-2008 11:36 PM

The problem with your analogy is that the two different "imperfections" aren't the same kind at all.

One is a system that apparently feeds occasionally bad/mediocre data to a DVD or other video source. This is an inherent flaw to it.

The other is a system that takes a look at whether the data being provided to it is good or not (or even if it is being provided any at all), then reacts accordingly. To me that sounds more like robustness than imperfection.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-01-2008 10:21 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
My point is the one in your neighborhood is sucking even worse for charging higher prices than what other Wal-Mart locations are asking for Blu-ray related merchandise.

Ahem, It turns out that this price increase is nation wide and not only at Wal-Mart... its everywhere and if it hasn't hit your area yet it will shortly! We were picking up a new Samsung LN-T4661 yesterday at Circuit City and I noted that their prices on Blew Ray disks were the same as Wal-Mart. On a quick stop at Best Buy to also check their pricing on the Samsung revealed exactly the same pricing on Blew Ray disks and the Samsung was 500.00 higher but they would price match the tv! I enquired at both Circuit City and Best Buy about the high Blew Ray pricing and both managers more or less gave me the same response and that was "The competition is gone and thats the new pricing". The FYE stores in Salt LAke City and Ogden also sell at the same price. While there IS always Amazon perhaps you guys will now learn how competition helped keep prices on the Blew Ray and HD-DVD software down at a more reasonable price!

On another note there are incredible deals available on many 40" and 42" LCD sets, Sony, Samsung, JVC, Toshiba, etc., at C.C. for the next while. The 4661 we bought was a great deal at $1249 and replaces my 8 year old Mitsubishi first generation HD 4X3 CRT 50" rear projection set. B.B. had the same set on the floor at $1899 but they were willing to price match, I went back to C.C. since this particuluar store has always been more on the ball.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-01-2008 12:59 PM

I was just at Wal-Mart yesterday and visited the electronics section to pick up some CD-R discs for my aunt (strangely other places in town are just carrying DVD media). Anyway, the prices I saw there were unchanged. They have the Samsung BD-P1500 for $349, not $500. The web site for Wal-Mart only lists the Playstation 3, the Sony S300 player and the Magnavox branded Funai player. The prices for those items have not gone up and are identical to prices I see at the store.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 06-01-2008 01:03 PM

Perhaps this is proof that things sell for different prices in different areas? Hmm?

The cost of living and min wage are quite a bit higher back in Seattle so it's not that surprising that things there tend to cost more than here in Houston.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-01-2008 01:25 PM

Or perhaps Bobby doesn't know how to read. I wasn't referring to any players in any of my posts... just software. As prices have dropped on on LCD televisions because of popularity one would think that BD player prices would also be dropping if they were really selling any, obvuiously sales are still pretty sparse. As I said accfording to store managers I sope to at CC and BB all new BR releases will now be priced at $29.95 in stores older releases will be going for $19.95 and $24.95! Also makes me wonder if Sony hasn't jacked the cost price up a bit. I remember when HD discs were still on the shelves right next to BR that new releases in both formats could be had for as low as $19.95 with an occasional new release at $24.95.

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-01-2008 02:18 PM

I read your post and it's a bunch of shit. Those managers are just telling you what you want to hear. It's a sure bet when (or if) you talked to them you made sure to include your typical red ant Blu-ray doom and gloom soapbox stance. You never speak objectively about Blu-ray. So they probably just told you a bunch of crap so you would get out of their face.

Mark, if you want to throw around accusations of people not properly reading something then practice what you preach. You seem to be one of very few people who cannot seem to comprehend the current situation with Blu-ray players. It isn't anywhere near as bad as you are constantly spinning it. I've posted a good number of positive news reports about Blu-ray in recent days that you have obviously skipped.

Most people buying Blu-ray players right now are buying Playstation 3 consoles since they're the only BD Profile 2.0 players available right now (Panasonic's DMP-BD50 player apparently has not shipped yet).

It's also a fact manufacturers weren't prepared to accommodate demand for Blu-ray players. They were caught off guard by the format war ending early. Stores are stuck with older, less sophisticated models carrying higher price tags.

Add to this the fact Spring and early Summer is a slow time of year for home video. All the shitty movie releases from the first half of the year are having to cycle out of theaters and onto video. It's going to be late September at the earliest before we start seeing quality new releases on DVD and Blu-ray. Movies like Iron Man and The Dark Knight are going to help sell a lot of home theater gear, including Blu-ray players. By the time those movies arrive on Blu-ray the situation with the standalone players will be much better than it is now.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 06-02-2008 06:03 AM

What makes everyone think that the "image overlap" image processing technique has to have compressed images for the system to work? I am not talking about compressed images in any way. The technique was developed to enhance a standard image with more standard images of the same scene. Just because DVD systems uses compressed images doesn't mean the image overlap system was designed for compressed images.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-02-2008 09:18 AM

Larry, that doesn't make any sense.

There is no need to overlap a bunch of uncompressed images unless you're doing something like building a high dynamic range still image in Photoshop. Nothing in video or motion graphics relates to that at all since it cannot support such high bit depths per color channel.

Since the subject of this thread is Blu-ray, any of the video and graphics involved in the format is going to be in the form of lossy data compressed video. There is no such thing as uncompressed video on Blu-ray. The 54 Mb/sec maximum bandwidth is even too low to store uncompressed NTSC quality video. Mere MiniDV camcorder footage runs at 29.6 million bits per second and it has all sorts of compression applied to it.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 06-02-2008 10:13 AM

If it doesn't make sense to you, then they offer a 1 week course at the University of Rochester in Image Processing. Although, if you go to that course, nothing will make sense to you for about 2 weeks after. It's that intense.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 06-02-2008 12:49 PM

quote: Larry Myers
If it doesn't make sense to you, then they offer a 1 week course at the University of Rochester in Image Processing. Although, if you go to that course, nothing will make sense to you for about 2 weeks after. It's that intense.

..if it's that intense, then why take the course?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 06-02-2008 01:27 PM

Why would I want a bunch of multiple images blended together when I could have a single high resolution image instead? Toshiba will fail again. They know how to do nothing else. Blu-ray beat HD DVD because Blu-ray is better than HD DVD. For once the better format won!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-02-2008 03:20 PM

quote:
For once the better format won!

Yep! And now all of us will be paying higher prices as a result [thumbsup]

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-02-2008 06:03 PM

quote:
Toshiba is working on an extension to the DVD format which will offer video quality comparable to that produced by Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs

This sounds like more marketing BS from Toshiba. The reason that HD-DVD failed was that Blu-Ray has almost TWICE the storage, and a much higher max data rate. So now Toshiba is going to use a DVD? That has MUCH less storage than even an HD-DVD. Here is reality: a lower data rate = poorer picture quality. It really is that simple. Any multi frame averaging will cause motion blur. It would be my guess that this marketing department brain fart of an idea will never see the light of day. Don't forget that HD-DVD sold for less than Blu-Ray, and still failed. HD-DVD was first to market and still failed; this new thing is way too late. After all, the idiots at Toshiba can't even do simple math. They tried to tell us that 3 layers at 15G per layer would give you 51G (3*15=45).

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 06-02-2008 06:51 PM

I just bought Rambo (4) because it is way better than movies like The Other Boleyn Girls, etc. Anyway, it includes a digital copy!!!!!! But the HD version is still analog. Surely if the Blu-ray video were digital, they wouldn't differentiate the smaller version solely as being "digital". So therefore Blu-ray MUST be analog.

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