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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-03-2008 11:05 AM
Wow, you guys read a lot more into that news report than I did!
Aside from demonstrating that they may not have a complete grasp on technical reality (e.g. using SACD as an example of "adding on" data to an existing format), it almost seems like they are taking a molehill and crafting a mountain from it.
What I've gathered from other news reports about the Toshiba development is that they are going to be using the Cell processor (remember they bought the Cell processor plant) to upconvert standard definition DVD's with better quality than what has been possible from other products so far.
The head of Toshiba has been quoted as saying that the technology they're developing will rival high definition images on HD DVD discs.
quote:
If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced.
One of the criticisms that people have had of HD DVD and Blu-ray is that they couldn't tell the difference between them and standard definition DVD's. If Toshiba is successful in creating an even better upconverting player than the current crop of player, at a price level that is much lower than Blu-ray players, they have a potential market.
I don't think Toshiba's trying to create a new format, I don't think they're trying "add on" some new additional data to the DVD format, and I don't think that the results they will achieve will really be equivalent to high definition possible on Blu-ray.
I do think that it's possible that a high end processor can do some great things when it comes to upsampling/upconverting video. I also think that the Blu-ray format hasn't gained a true foothold in the market, and they are going to have to reduce their prices, increase their visibility, and get rid of the under-featured players that are currently on the market.
Just because there isn't another high definition video format to compete against, it doesn't mean that Blu-ray is going to succeed by default. That's a reality that Blu-ray hardware manufacturers don't appear to understand.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-03-2008 01:19 PM
One thing the manufacturers didn't understand was the possibility the format war could end at any time and they weren't prepared for it. They weren't set to scale up production for bigger volume orders and get newer models with better capability to the market faster and at lower prices. It's currently a slow time of year for video sales, but they have to be ready to deliver some good products and deals this fall.
quote: Scott Jentsch
The head of Toshiba has been quoted as saying that the technology they're developing will rival high definition images on HD DVD discs.
It's a quote that has drawn quite a bit of laughter. A 345,600 pixel image blown up 600% isn't going to be equal to an image with 2 megapixels of native image detail.
quote: Scott Jentsch
One of the criticisms that people have had of HD DVD and Blu-ray is that they couldn't tell the difference between them and standard definition DVD's.
That kind of claim has been repeated very often, but it's still very ridiculous.
The claim raises too many questions about viewing varibles. For starters, how good is the viewer's eye sight? What native resolution is the viewer's TV? 1080p? 720? Or perhaps a mere 480 X 852 "EDTV?" Lots of inexpensive EDTVs capable of receiving DTV signals display only 480 x 852 resolution, even if it is being fed a 1080p signal via HDMI from a Blu-ray player. What size of TV is being used? What's the viewing distance? Last, but not least, what specific Blu-ray movie is the viewer watching? Is the viewer watching a movie widely acclaimed for its image quality (such as Cars) or one that has been drubbed by critics for having a bad transfer (like Robocop or Training Day)?
The people saying Blu-ray doesn't look any different than DVD are conveniently leaving out all of that critical information.
quote: Scott Jentsch
If Toshiba is successful in creating an even better upconverting player than the current crop of player, at a price level that is much lower than Blu-ray players, they have a potential market.
There's two problems.
1. They have to get studio support for the format. Good luck on that, Toshiba.
2. They have to get retailers to carry the hardware. That may be an even longer shot.
High end electronics stores are already announcing plans to eliminate standard DVD players from their store shelves and replace them with Blu-ray players since those players can also play DVDs and unconvert them. They're doing that because there's actually a profit margin in Blu-ray hardware.
Cheap DVD players are unprofitable and present very little in the way of upsell opportunity for accessories and other gear. That's because everyone buying a DVD player these days is merely buying a replacement for one that stopped working.
After the heated HD-DVD versus Blu-ray battle, I'm certain movies studios are sick of format wars and not interested in entering another one which could threaten to confuse both Blu-ray and SD DVD markets.
Hollywood studios haven't forgot just how slow disc sales were for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray when the format war was raging. Now that studios have united behind Blu-ray, disc sales for the format are growing. Some deeper price discounts are now taking place.
I pulled up the website for Wal-Mart early this morning and was surprised to see them pricing the new Blu-ray of Cloverfield just under $20. They have the 5-disc edition of Bladerunner priced at only $15! There's several other WB titles priced at $15. Some titles, like those from Fox, are still high. But it looks like they're doing more to match the lower prices at Amazon.com.
Edited to correct a typo.
[ 06-04-2008, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-04-2008 12:41 AM
More about the Wal-Mart deal:
Wal-Mart pushing sales of Blu-ray players
quote: Reuters
Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:43pm EDT
NEW YORK (Reuters) - With the high definition DVD format war settled, Wal-Mart Stores Inc is now aggressively promoting sales of Blu-ray players.
The world's largest retailer said on Tuesday that from June 8-14, it is offering a $100 Wal-Mart gift card with the purchase of any Blu-ray player in its stores.
Wal-Mart has also increased the brands of Blu-ray players it sells, adding Magnavox, Samsung and Panasonic, and it will sell select Blu-ray movie titles for $15 starting June 8, including "3:10 to Yuma", "Shooter" and "300".
Until earlier this year, consumers who were seeking sharper movies on high-definition DVDs had to choose between two competing standards -- the Blu-ray high-definition DVD format, developed by Sony Corp and the rival HD DVD camp, which was backed by Toshiba Corp.
The competing standards stalled the shift to the new technology in the $24 billion home DVD market as consumers, worried they would be stuck with obsolete technology, avoided buying the players.
But in February, Wal-Mart said it planned to exclusively back the Blu-ray format and later that month, Toshiba said it would end its HD DVD business.
Wal-Mart, which has been working to boost sales of consumer electronics, also said on Tuesday it has completed the redesign of its consumer electronics department in stores nationwide.
The redesigned departments include more space for consumers to test video games, an expanded selection of GPS navigation products, a new display center for computers and a bigger selection of high-definition TVs.
(Reporting by Nicole Maestri; editing by Maureen Bavdek)
I'll repeat that Wal-Mart is already offering some deeply discounted Blu-ray movies at its web site. Customers have to wait a few more days for those prices to be applied to BDs in the retail stores. The $100 gift card deal is pretty interesting. I wonder if Playstation 3 consoles are included.
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in Arkansas so I imagine if they sell them complete here that is happening most places!
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