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Author
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Topic: Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin Dies
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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-07-2006 03:23 PM
This has nothing to do with Irwin being a celeb. Quite frankly, when I heard the name, I didn't even remember it as being his name. I think it's people just seeing him on tv or in person and connecting with him and his family. Don't underestimate the power of the footage of he and his family interacting to provide entertainment for the rest of us and double up as conservation advocates (A 2 for 1 deal). If people an feel bad about a movie with fictional characters which has a tragic ending, don't give me crap about how silly it is for people to actually feel really bad about what has happened to a real family many people have seen grown together and hoped to see them on more adventures in the future(make that a 3 for 1 deal).
When Pricess Di died, I could care less and found it amusing when I saw a lot of women crying for her. But I didn't go tell them how silly I thought they were to identify with a rich woman who married for the prestige thing and seemed to have a self pitying attitude. But I saw a lot more of Di more than I care to on TV than I did of Irwin. So I am pretty sure the celeb factor is not the driving factor here for a lot of people mourning for his loss. (well, maybe for some, as there are always going to be that small group of people who think of celebs as an extension of their own family). When Ben Roethlisberger had a major accident, and initial reports were pretty awful, I felt bad as I would for any human being , but I did not feel a deep sadness despite the fact that he was the QB of the Steelers, a team that I follow on a daily basis even in the offseason.
So give us a little credit.
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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-07-2006 06:43 PM
Any man’s untimely death is a shame, and I feel bad for his wife and children who must now carry on without him. But at the risk of sounding cold-blooded, as to the man himself, I feel the same way about his passing as I would if it had been one of the guys from Jackass. Maybe, just maybe, he should have exercised a little more caution and/or common sense.
The whole thing puts me in mind of Timothy Treadwell, the subject of the documentary Grizzly Man. Here was a dude who befriended grizzly bears in Alaska. Walked around them, fed them, touched them, lived among them, defended them against human predators, and got the idea that because they allowed it that it meant they accepted him as some kind of friend. Yes, he was truly “at one” with the bears . . . right up to the day that they tore him and his girlfriend to shreds. It seems to me that he and Irwin are the same: guys who got the idea that their rapport with these creatures was so great that they were, for all intents and purposes, immortal around them. Ooops!
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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"
Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 09-09-2006 04:28 AM
quote: Pravin Ratnam
When Pricess Di died, I could care less and found it amusing when I saw a lot of women crying for her.
That is so heartless and insensitive of you! I am shocked.
quote: Pravin Ratnam
But I didn't go tell them how silly I thought they were to identify with a rich woman who married for the prestige thing and seemed to have a self pitying attitude.
Are you saying the people here who felt offended by those who stated they didn't really care about what happened to Irwin are like silly girls, too?
quote: Pravin Ratnam
So I am pretty sure the celeb factor is not the driving factor here for a lot of people mourning for his loss.
So what else? You didn't know the guy. Nobody here did. You only knew the role he played on TV (and, really obnoxiously, in one feature film which was even more superfluous than "Crocodile Dundee in L.A."). It doesn't matter if some say he behaved like that off camera, too. You still didn't know him. You only know what you saw on TV and how you interpreted that. There is no difference between what you saw in him and what some saw in Lady Di. Well, there is, but in content, not in principle.
quote: Mark Ogden
The whole thing puts me in mind of Timothy Treadwell, the subject of the documentary Grizzly Man. Here was a dude who befriended grizzly bears in Alaska.
To be fair, I think as clowny as Irwin was, he was still way more serious or to be taken seriously than Treadwell. That guy was really just completely messed up. I mean, emotionally. Well, physically, too at the end. Some of the scenes in "Grizzly Man" were really extremely embarassing. Although the footage of Irwin crying about the dead crocodile reminded me a little bit of Treadwell. A friend of mine recently lost his dog who he had had for many years and was devastated, and I understood why. But he didn't feel the need to make a TV show about that so that the whole world could see him cry about the dog.
quote: Bobby Henderson
If Steve Irwin's death really doesn't matter to you at all, then why exactly are you even wasting your time posting anything at all about it?
Because it's actually an interesting discussion about how some people mourn over somebody they don't know except for as a TV persona and how they feel offended by people saying he put himself in the situation, but at the same time the same people are completely untouched by countless other violent deaths that occur every day in many corners of the world. It tells us a lot about the double standards and hypocrisy of the world we live in.
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Anslem Rayburn
Master Film Handler
Posts: 476
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 09-09-2006 05:23 AM
I only know all of you via this message board. Does that mean I shouldn't be sad if one of you die when a Xenon lamp explodes and hurts one of you enough to kill you? After all, it was part of the job you chose to take.
Nobody is saying you should mourn his passing. But it's insensitive and disrespectful to piss on him, or those that choose to mourn his death, in a thread about him. And the respect I speak of isn't for him and his life's work, but for others on this board. People that consider themselves your friends and colleagues.
And, Mr. Schaffer, you have no idea how I feel about the loss of life outside this narrow sphere discussed in this thread. We aren't allowed to discuss politics and religion on here (and I understand that decision). I vote and partake in many activities that hope to shape the way things play out. We can discuss those activities further, if you wish to e-mail me. But this is not a government-sanctioned killing or the result of a war or the result of the policies of a cabinet/monarchy/dictatorship/et. al. It was a freak accident that took the life of a man that some of us feel a connection to.
We are allowed to discuss Mr. Irwin's death here. And for you to crap upon those that felt a connection to him is not appropriate. No matter your reasoning, it is disrespectful to other members of this board. I hope you understand.
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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"
Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 09-09-2006 05:53 AM
quote: Anslem Rayburn
But this is not a government-sanctioned killing or the result of a war or the result of the policies of a cabinet/monarchy/dictatorship/et. al.
Does that mean that those deaths matter less to you? Strange attitude (but it's your priviledge to have and voice whatever attitude you have towards these things, just like everybody else's here). It appears to me that being killed by such events is just as tragic. Being killed in general sucks, I think.
quote: Anslem Rayburn
We are allowed to discuss Mr. Irwin's death here. And for you to crap upon those that felt a connection to him is not appropriate. No matter your reasoning, it is disrespectful to other members of this board. I hope you understand.
The one thing definitely not appropriate is the language you take here. I think nobody who said he didn't care as much as some people apparently do for the crocodile hunter's death "crapped" on anybody. I know I didn't. I explained my point of view in good language, not "crapping". I think there were some undertones in some other posts earlier which had a feeling of making fun of those who care more, but not by me. I just state my opinions and let other people state theirs. We can also discuss them. But I do not wish to suppress opinions which don't conform with mine, like you do. I hope you understand that.
What was your connection with Mr Irwin, BTW? What was he really like as a person, since you apparently knew him?
quote: Anslem Rayburn
Does that mean I shouldn't be sad if one of you die when a Xenon lamp explodes and hurts one of you enough to kill you? After all, it was part of the job you chose to take.
If somebody who is supposedly informed about the risks clowned around with xenon lamps without proper protective eyewear and clothing and, say, uninsulated hot electrical lines or stuck his fingers into a running machine fully knowing the risks just to display how fearless he is and he would get hurt as a result of his actions, I wouldn't care at all. In fact, I would say, serves him right, and he may have given other people a bad example and caused them to get hurt, too, because they simply didn't know better than he actually did but chose to ignore.
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Jeremy Fuentes
Mmmm, Dr. Pepper!
Posts: 1168
From: Corpus Christi, TX United States
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 09-09-2006 01:15 PM
Well, Chris, thats because you're not an ass like some people. I mean you are in some regards, but not in this case. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
And so theres no confusion about who I'm referring to when I say ass, I mean Chad and Michael. To say that you dont care about someone dying, regardless of the circumstance, is giving me permission to not care about you or your family members or friends dying.(and publicly saying that I dont care) As much as you are trying to make it seem like you are too tough to care, that would bother you and you know its true. But not to worry, I would care. I'll even state it publicly. How silly of me, right? I mean I have no connection to them whatsoever. Silly human feelings. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"
Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 09-09-2006 02:13 PM
Jeremy - you are apparently a good natured and well meaning, but not very intelligent fellow. Or not very mature. Or both. I explained this over and over, and you still don't get it. It is not about being tough or not tough or silly or not silly or pretending or not pretending to feel ot not to feel anything.
It is about honesty. If something happened to me or a family member or a friend or a friend's dog, you wouldn't give a shit just like you don't give a shit about all the many deaths that you see or hear about on the news every day. You just change the channel. There is nothing you can do to help them anyway.
If you say you do, then you are just lying. Maybe you feel bad for a brief moment, but that is no compassion, it is the pain of being reminded how fleeting life is and that the things you see on TV could happen to you and the people close to you, too. That is a purely egotistic feeling we all have sometimes, but it really isn't about the victims, it is about us. In reality, you don't care about all the poor victims of violence, poverty and natural disasters that you watch on TV every day at all. If you really did, you would try to do something to help them. Just like you would try to do something to help or comfort friends or family. But you don't. All that is outside your reach. And you have already forgotten after a few seconds whose death you just heard about, unless it is a somehow more well known name and face like a TV or movie celebrity. Then it stays with you a little longer. But do you really care? Is your life affected by that? No, not at all. But it makes you feel good to make some nice sounding comments. But it is really all about yourself and how good and righteous it makes you feel to pretend you care, not about the victims.
But you can do and say whatever you like. Once your emotional maturity level rises above that of a 12-year old, then you will maybe learn to just accept that other people don't feel the same way about some things as you do, and don't feel the same need for public protestations of fake compassion.
There was a great scene in Denis Leary's show "Rescue Me" (which, as you probably know, is about firefighters in NY and about the problems they have to cope with life in general and the aftermath of 9/11 in particular) in which he walks into a bar and tells the people they all pretend to care a lot about what happened on that day - sad faces all around, people looking compassionate - but then he says he bets that most of the people in the bar can name all finalists from "American Idol" but none of them can name just one firefighter who died on that day - long faces all around, people staring at the floor.
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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug
Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 09-09-2006 06:17 PM
To say something from my own personal POV as a long-time SCUBA diver, diving instructor, and underwater film producer/cameraman for many years, (Umm, of course that was when I was 'much' younger and not so fat!) and having filmed MANY 35mm and 16mm underwater films in all sorts of waters from the Florida Keys, Bahamas', deep dark caves, and the murky waters of Michigan lakes
...AND NOT pre-judging Irwin for HIS "showmanship", I also feel bad when any (Western) person is killed by accident or deliberately. (sorry for the run-on sentence) I'm truly sorry not only for Irwin's immediate family, but also those who have (personally) known him.
Myself, having personally witnessed violent death 1st hand several times, and knowing the devastation it causes to those that knew the person, I can say it's NOT fun! That being said, death is part of life...ya can't die if you're NOT born. Hopefully we will ALL "go" painlessly at an old age.
But again, just because many FT posters felt they had a "connection" with Irwin's TV persona, for me, that does NOT warrant a feeling of him being my "best buddy" and I will cry my eyes out at his passing.
As I said before, I'm pragmatic and indifferent to his passing. I do feel compassion to those family members and friends he left behind, but that will pass since ***I*** personally don't know him.
For me, the scariest UW creatures are Barracuda, Morey Eels, and sea snakes. I really have no fear of sharks, skates, rays, groupers, etc and have dived with them many times knowing the "what's" about them.
Anyway, I also feel bad when a roadkill animal is hit/run over. I've seen dogs, cats, armadillos, etc dead on the road that make me feel bad. When I drive, I pray that I do not hit or kill any or see any suffering poor creatures that haven't been killed but just maimed and are suffering along the road.
But as Chris said, I don't dwell on it and let it rule my life especially since they are NOT personally known to me...like one's pet that one would weep over and feel bad about their passing "forever". I mean, *THEY* are our life-long, non-judgmental "friends".
The bigger (and sadder) thing in this thread is ***MANY*** of us appear to have forgotten the original premise of this thread and many, including myself, have turned this thread into a personal war of words and opinions rather than respecting the dead person for their positive contributions.
Again, I'm indifferent to Irwin, but... ummm "can't we all just get along?" ...and NOT make this thread about personalities but rather the man that passed? NO MATTER our individual opinions of him? Stop killing the members just cuz their opinion differ from one's own. JFC! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 09-09-2006, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Phil Hill ]
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
). I didn't know the guy so I don't have that level of "investment" in him. For all I know, off-camera he was a jerk. I'm not saying he was, I'm saying I don't know. I am of course sad for his wife and family, but they will endure.![[beer]](graemlins/beer.gif)
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