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Topic: Gas Prices in your area
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 10-12-2008 03:56 PM
On Friday, gasoline prices here fell to $2.69 per gallon for 87 octane. Diesel prices are still pretty high, $3.69 per gallon, a full dollar above the 87 octane price.
Businesses have not been able to cut back on driving commercial vehicles nearly as much as individual people. Companies, like the one where I work, have to keep its vehicles on the road regardless of the fuel prices. Because of that, fuel companies can continue charging a huge premium for diesel without worrying about the high prices killing demand.
Concern is being raised by the news media that falling gas prices will undermine efforts to develop alternative energy sources and reduce the nation's dependence on imported oil. I think some of those concerns are unfounded.
The run up in gasoline prices to record levels caused a great deal of demand destruction. The area in Oklahoma where I live was deeply into the big truck and big SUV craze. I don't see very many of those vehicles on the roads anymore around here. People around here used to make fun of the Toyota Prius as a symbol of being wimpy. Once gasoline ran past the $3 and $4 per gallon levels, a lot of those same people swallowed their pride and started driving one, or some other kind of small car.
Everyone also knows these falling fuel prices may be a very temporary thing. Lots of speculators and hedge funds have been wiped out by the turmoil on Wall Street, but those same guys are going to return and try their best to drive futures prices up to record levels all over again. OPEC is supposed to have an "emergency meeting" sometime in November. They'll probably reduce oil output in an attempt to get oil back to $100 per barrel.
I'm not sure how much good that will do. Americans are gradually making big changes in their lifestyles. Lots of "McMansions" are sitting unsold in distant exhurbs of major cities while mixed use "lifestyle centers" are leading a resurgence of city centers.
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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 10-13-2008 11:56 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
Concern is being raised by the news media that falling gas prices will undermine efforts to develop alternative energy sources and reduce the nation's dependence on imported oil. I think some of those concerns are unfounded.
The run up in gasoline prices to record levels caused a great deal of demand destruction. The area in Oklahoma where I live was deeply into the big truck and big SUV craze. I don't see very many of those vehicles on the roads anymore around here. People around here used to make fun of the Toyota Prius as a symbol of being wimpy. Once gasoline ran past the $3 and $4 per gallon levels, a lot of those same people swallowed their pride and started driving one, or some other kind of small car.
The bigger concern should be trying to develop viable alternative energy sources instead of energy negative and food price increasing sources like corn based ethanol. In addition to using wind and solar power where it makes sense (although enormous amounts of energy are used to make the turbine blades), the biggest push should be to try and increase the use of Nuclear Power. The waste situation can be dealt with. It would be viable to try and get to something in the 5-10 year timeframe like 40% nuclear, 20% green energy (wind/solar/etc), 30% coal (using clean coal technology), 10% natural gas. Then we can use natural gas as a common automobile fuel to replace a lot of the gasoline/diesel consumption.
A solution such as that one will buy us the time to develop a viable biofuel or other alternative for automobile fuel. Viable means that enough of it can be produced on a reasonable amount of land so as not to effect food production. Viable also means that you get much more energy out of the fuel than it took to produce it (since you will have to use some other energy source to produce it).
There is no question that the price shock at the pump has caused people to stop buying huge trucks and SUVs that they don't need. Consumer reaction combined with the CAFE standards increase will make sure the trend doesn't reverse even if prices drop back to the $2.50 - $3.00 range for the medium term.
We're probably getting pretty close to maximizing fuel efficiency of vehicles without major and expensive solutions like using exotic materials. Hybrids are great to improve stop and go efficiency but at some point physics kicks in. Weight and Aerodynamics are the main factors that determine efficiency (weight is the big problem with stop and go, aerodynamics combined with weight for highway). The theoretical maximum efficiency of a gasoline ICE is 25% which is not practically achieveable. Modern engines are 22%+ efficient so there's not much room for improvement there. Unless a radical engine technology (like the six-stroke water injection) is able to be produced practically, there's not much more milage to gain with engine technology alone.
The problem is that if you start making economy cars out of aluminum and carbon fibre composites you're going to end up with a $30,000 honda civic.
Anyway, back to topic, the best I've seen near me in the last week or so is $3.39.
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