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Author Topic: TSA = Tremendously Stupid Asses Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-15-2011 12:25 PM                        Problem with your analogy, Randy, is that what the dentist is doing is for your own good -- it benefits YOU. Actually, I couldn't get a rats ass if my dentist has a good dentist chair side manner, as long as he's good and causes me the least amount of pain. His attitude is irrelevant to me. Conversely, I equally don't care if a TSA agent's attitude is friendly, indifferent or fascist, if I perceive what he is demanding of me is not in my best interest, or irrational, or worse, contrary to my rights, then I am going to resist, or at the very least be VERY resentful. It's what he's demanding I do that determines my displeasure, not his smile or lack thereof.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-15-2011 02:32 PM                     Sorry Randy, but in this scenario the attitude of the TSA agents doesn't make this right. Sure I appreciate friendly TSA agents, but that doesn't make what they are doing right. I do NOT appreciate being treated like a criminal. That's the real issue here. They are treating EVERYONE as if they are terrorists and ignoring the fact that the terrorists are smarter than TSA. Yes I understand the whole "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't really work in a terrorist situation, but when I look around and see various ways that could be easily utilized to get a weapon into the secured area of an airport and there is NO modification to the building or TSA agent around, I'm sorry if you disagree but yes it offends me when I and other innocent people are being searched as terrorists when they have not done their due diligence on effectively making it impossible to get a weapon into the secured area in the first place. Furthermore I feel LESS SAFE with TSA than before, because as an honest citizen I am being stripped of any defense I would have otherwise had.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-15-2011 02:34 PM                     I agree for the most part. What I am trying to say applies more generally than simply having agents smile and act politely. Yes, the direction they are taking their policies is totally off base and, for the most part, unnecessary. The terrorists that attacked the World Trade Center did NOT get their weapons on board through the passenger gates. They got them on board by having "back of house" confederates plant weapons in places where they could be found. IRRC, the knives (box cutters) were planted under the seats by the people who clean the passenger cabins between flights. Therefore, "front of house" security measures could not have prevented the attack nor could such measures prevent another determined attacker from doing the exact same thing over again. I am not in favor of scaling back passenger screening but neither am I in favor of increasing it. I simply think we should have more reasonable procedures and, when those procedures are used, the people who enforce them need to have a more understanding approach. X-raying carry-on packages is good. Metal detectors are good. Even wand searches and pat-downs of passengers who can not pass any of the above tests are okay with me. But this wholesale adversarial approach to security has got to stop. Looking at every passenger like a criminal isn't going to do anybody any good. It is not simply the good natured dentist who is appreciated more. It is the dentist who presents his case with reasonable authority and gives his patient salient information with which both, dentist and patient, can decide on the best course of action. Personally, I prefer the dentist who can carry on a conversation and even appreciate the occasional joke but a stone-faced dentist who does a good job and explains what he wants you to do then allows me to cooperate in making the decision how to proceed would still get my vote. Depending on the situation, I might even select a dentist who is a bit of a sourpuss if he does the right thing. I agree that, overall, our airline security people are not doing the right thing but I still stand on the belief that their attitude in carrying out their job has at least as much bearing on the public's reaction as their policies and procedures do.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 05-15-2011 04:08 PM                        Even if the government and every TSA was super nice about it from the beginning, people would still be just as much up in arms about the whole process of getting their anus rubbed down and junk touched, etc etc. Them: "Excuse me, sir, I'm so sorry to have to do this, but I'm going to need to grope your penis to see if you are trying to smuggle some fingernail clippers down there." Me: "Uhh, no thanks, really." Them: "OK we're gonna have to arrest you now". Why aren't they checking to see how much experience I have in the martial arts? Jujitsu can bring down a fair amount of people, far more than fingernail clippers can.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-15-2011 04:19 PM                        Whether the TSA people are nice or not should not be a factor here. Nor should the question of whether or not what the TSA is doing is effective. The real question here is whether pat-downs or full-body scanners (or even baggage X-rays) violate the right to be protected from unreasonable search and seizure, as guaranteed in the fourth amendment to the Consitution. I have yet to read or hear a convincing argument that they do not. If it is determined that these procedures are effective and necessary to protect against terrorism, then the Constitution can be amended to allow them. Until that happens, the government has no right to violate passengers' basic protections under the law. And, yes, anyone other than a complete moron who was trying to smuggle stuff onto an airplane would not try to do so through the passenger entry checkpoints. My personal feeling is that we, as Americans, have done more damage to our country and way of life in the name of anti-terrorism schemes than any terrorist could ever hope to achieve through actual terrorist actions.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-15-2011 06:03 PM                        That is true. The terrorists HAVE won. The fact that no successful attacks using planes have been pulled off since 9/11 has a downside -- the TSA takes credit for it and that makes them think they're all the more necessary.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-15-2011 06:08 PM                     quote: Randy Stankey Besides, your mind is already made up. Regardless of what I say, you have already decided to resist. It makes no difference what I say. Perhaps it makes no difference what you say because the arguments you've given are things that we've all heard before. Our minds were made up by this thing called "thinking." It's not like out of nowhere we all started disagreeing with you for no reason. Further, this strikes me as saying "You only disagree with me because you're not open-minded enough to give me a chance."  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-15-2011 06:27 PM                     I personally know a pilot who was stopped taking on nail clippers to a flight he was piloting. They apparently didn't mind that he has a large axe with him in the cockpit for emergencies, but no nail clippers allowed. It's all bullshit.  |  IP: Logged David M. Leugers Film Handler Posts: 43 From: Fairfield, Ohio, united States of America Registered: Jan 2005 posted 05-15-2011 11:27 PM                     quote: John Wilson It's all bullshit. The entire fable fed to us by the media about 911 is all bullshit. Sorry, but any fan of Sherlock Holmes can tell you that. If the story was true, the facts would fit. Nothing does. What we have gotten out of it is war, a police state and a very, very dim future for us all. Today in Cincinnati the police arrested a 69 year old man at a private party. Then they arrested his wife because she had set off some fireworks. When the man stepped forward begging them not to arrest his wife the cops tasered him... I am sorry, this is not the country I grew up in.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-15-2011 11:45 PM                     Please don't make this a 9/11 conspiracy thread. PLEASE!  |  IP: Logged David M. Leugers Film Handler Posts: 43 From: Fairfield, Ohio, united States of America Registered: Jan 2005 posted 05-16-2011 08:45 AM                     I wouldn't waste my time Chris. Just seems kinda contrary that this thread complains about the heinous actions by the "government" via the TSA (and rightly so) yet rigidly believes that the same entity would not lie to us... It seems so hard for us to separate love of country from belief and trust in government. I know it was very hard for me.  |  IP: Logged Pravin Ratnam Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 844 From: Atlanta, GA,USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 05-16-2011 09:59 AM                     The TSA is a joke. The liquids policy is one of the dumbest policies ever. THere is absolutely no reason why multiple 3 oz liquids couldnt be combined to form a bigger liquid after the security checkpoint. And if it is, guess what, they would be too dangerous to just carry in a regular contact lens container. Also, I have had no problems taking prescrption meds without putting them in a plastic bag. I travel a lot and not once has a TSA agent asked me to segregate all meds and liquids into those ziplock bags. These days, even if a terrorist got through TSA, passengers awareness of terrorism is the biggest obstacle to the successful execution of most terrorist plots. If 9-11 type security breach happened agin, they would not be able to get away with it because the passengers would kick their asses. If Flight 93 passengers didn't have the late awareness that it was a suicide mission, they would have beaten up the terrorists bfore it was too late.  |  IP: Logged Edward Havens Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 614 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 05-16-2011 11:45 AM                     Air travel is for the birds. Whenever possible, I prefer to travel by goat. Less emissions, no TSA hassles, and when I have returned home, I have enough meat to last me a month.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-16-2011 04:19 PM                     quote: David M. Leugers It seems so hard for us to separate love of country from belief and trust in government. I know it was very hard for me. We are all here, today, because our forefathers loved their country and distrusted their government. We even have a Constitution because we distrust our government. Love of country and distrust of government are not counter to each other. They go hand in hand. I do not simply mean to say that our government authorities can enact crazy policies and smile and be "nice" about them just to make people go along. In fact, if they had the right attitude, they wouldn't have enacted many of the bad policies that we have now. But the problem of security needs to be thought out and policy needs to be enacted that toes the line between the peoples' needs and the peoples' rights. It is the attitude with which that problem is solved that makes more difference than most of the policies. If the balance between liberty and security was maintained people wouldn't be as upset as they are now. Given that imbalance, maybe people NEED to get pissed off or else we may never see a balance again.  |  IP: Logged David M. Leugers Film Handler Posts: 43 From: Fairfield, Ohio, united States of America Registered: Jan 2005 posted 05-16-2011 05:05 PM                     quote: Randy Stankey We are all here, today, because our forefathers loved their country and distrusted their government. We even have a Constitution because we distrust our government. Love of country and distrust of government are not counter to each other. They go hand in hand. I couldn't agree more Randy. The Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments to the Constitution) were specifically put into the Constitution to protect us from an over reaching federal government. Sadly, since 911 the federal government has tossed aside our rights in the guise of protecting us. This is the same group who, if they were not involved in 911, were at least grossly incompetent beyond belief... Indiana Supreme Court just threw out the 4th amendment by ruling the police do not need a search warrant. Citizens are not allowed to resist, and if they do not like what was done by the police, they can protest it later (yeah right).  |  IP: Logged

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