Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers)

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Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers)

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-12-2004 01:27 AM

Hey Adam, tell your manager that there is no harm in calling for a replacement reel, because it doesn't cost anything. Maybe that'll wake him up.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 08-12-2004 01:37 AM

quote: Mr. Fuentes
We are doing everything short of calling the theater and telling the projectionist ourselves

I call theatres all the time if I can figure out / find out who it came from. It's usually quite effective and I thank those owners, managers and head projectionists who have corrected their problems after hearing about them.

quote: Barry Floyd
pick up the trash on the lot at 1:30 a.m.

You lucky bugger! You must not be running any / too many triple or quad bills.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-12-2004 09:42 AM

Whoever played the nearly pristine print of THUNDERBALL (and you know MGM didn't strike dozens of this title so this is the one of only a handful if that)....what are you FREAKIN BLIND? This print had perfectly visible lab cues that anyone with the most marginal visual acuity would be able to see. Yet this piece-o- [bs]

decides he needs a VISUAL AID...just in case his seeing eye dog is asleep at the change-overs. He felt compelled to scratch new cue marks (most of them OFF BY A FEW FRAMES). This is a dense print and most of the scenes where Mr. Blind-As-A-Bat Projectionist made these new, wholly unnecessary, and gawdawefully distracting bright white blotches, were dark scenes, making the man-made cues all the more obnoxious.

This is where I give Brad a very powerful negative on the change-over list of BAD things (again by incompetent operators). These change-over guys can scar a print forever by their idiotic attempts to re-cue it. And let's face it, most prints will play 99% of the time on platters; even those playing change-over houses will more than likely be mounted on long-play reels so putting any kind of cue marks above and beyond lab cues on each and every 2000ft roll will ruin presentation in 99% of all the house it will play in the future. C/O cues are NOT NEEDED. I say this even to the well-intentioned, well-made Clint marker cues. THEY ARE ETCHED INTO THE EMULSION and can never be removed, even though they won't be need.

So to protect his sorry worthless ass, this guy makes every presentation after his flawed. Even the damage that can be caused by multiple splices due to build-up and break-down in platter operation by similar half-wits will not impact presentation as much as the crap done by half-wit change-over guys in the name of making "visible" motor cues ten feet BEFORE the last frames.

There is a good argument here to follow certain countries' justice system....something about BREAKING FINGERS.

I covered these horrendous blotches with that Lettraset stuff I've spoken about. Put it on the bass side so as not to further inflict emulsion damage. Even when we get prints without ANY cues, it is our policy (as it should be every other art house) toe NEVER make permanent marks in the emulsion. In fact, we state in the projection manual that we PREFER a missed change-over (which will impact that one audience for 15seconds) to scarring a print which will impact every future audience for the life of the print. BTW, the Lettraset stuff looks just like black lab cues. In fact, I would prefer practically ANYTHING -- grease pencil XXX marks across the entire frames, those big paper label dots I've seen some freaks use -- anything that is removable, rather than emulsion scratched circles.

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Jason M Miller
Master Film Handler

Posts: 284
From: Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
Registered: Jul 2004

posted 08-12-2004 10:16 AM

I was just taught projection at my theater and after reading this I think I was taught wrong in some stuff, so here is the break down procedure(all tape we use is masking tape)

1: Take the last reel in the set, remove saved header, then tape the tail to the reel, then rewind

2: Then the next set of reels it is the same except the tails are already taped to the reels so we tape the film to the tail then rewind and then tape the head to the film

3: Continue to do this until done.

Ok questions, should I tape the tails to the reels or should they go into the slots on the cores?

Next: Masking tape bad or not, if so what should I use?

Next: Should the heads and tails be spliced back togeather or is tapeing fine?

Thanks for all your guys help, I want to do things correctly and I think the people that trained me was also trained incorrectly. I guess that is what you get when you work in a small 4plex in a small town

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 08-12-2004 11:42 AM

quote: Jason M Miller
Ok questions, should I tape the tails to the reels or should they go into the slots on the cores?

Put the film into the slot in the core/reel whenever possible, taping should be used as a LAST RESORT.

quote: Jason M Miller
Next: Masking tape bad or not, if so what should I use?

'Artist's Tape' is the preferred tape for booth use, but it is more expensive than masking tape. Masking tape is perfectly fine for securing leader ends (if the print doesn't have reel bands) or reel bands that don't have a string to a reel before shipping.

quote: Aaron Sisemore
Next: Should the heads and tails be spliced back together or is taping fine?

Heads and tails should be SPLICED BACK ON, with at least a one-sided clear tape splice. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!

People who tape the leaders back onto the print should be lined up, tied down (with masking tape) and tortured.... Brad gets first crack, then when he is done with you there's a long line of other people to follow him...

Do a search here for 'masking tape' to learn more of these evils.

It is not too late to change your ways...

-Aaron

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 08-12-2004 02:18 PM

quote:
Heads and tails should be SPLICED BACK ON, with at least a one-sided clear tape splice. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!

Though something like 90% of all theaters around the country use masking tape. I have never received a used print that didn't have masking tape all over it. I can only conclude very few places observe this method. I often get stares of "you're crazy" looks on people's faces when I tell them what the correct way to break a movie down is.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-13-2004 10:36 AM

quote: Wolff King Morrow
I often get stares of "you're crazy" looks on people's faces when I tell them what the correct way to break a movie down is.

Wollf, that's when you step up to the plate and give them a "Yah, and you're a dumn-as-shit A-hole" look right back at them. Just because they are incompetent fools who wouldn't know if a ball of masking tape were stuck up their butts, doesn't mean you have to give in and grab a wad for your own. A Majority of One, my friend.

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 08-13-2004 12:49 PM

Not to worry, I switched to the clear tape on one side method a while back after receiving an older print where the masking tape had damaged several frames on each reel. I didn't like that to say the least.

Lately my biggest complaint are theaters that use those bar-code stickers right on the frame itself. I tried to peel it off a couple of times and only ended up leaving a green scratch mark. Like Brad said, it would be nice if they put some clear tape underneath it first.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-13-2004 01:37 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Hey Adam, tell your manager that there is no harm in calling for a replacement reel, because it doesn't cost anything. Maybe that'll wake him up.

Couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not so I'll just note that if the damage was caused by the theatre it does cost money. We damaged a reel of Universal's 'The Skulls' and had to order a replacement, we were charged $400.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-13-2004 01:49 PM

Dustin, big difference.

Lab sends out a defective reel - you replace it at no cost to you.

Theater damages a reel - you pay for it!

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Jeremy Fuentes
Mmmm, Dr. Pepper!

Posts: 1168
From: Corpus Christi, TX United States
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 08-13-2004 01:59 PM

Even if its the previous theater??

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Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-13-2004 02:05 PM

Previous theatre damage is often a sticky situation. The film companies often like to charge fo rthem unless you report damage on the break. Well, how can you do that if you're a second run and get a print that's all f'd up? Then, if you don't call RIGHT AWAY, you can hang up any hope of either getting a replacement or getting out of being charged for the damage.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 08-13-2004 03:17 PM

Whenever you receive a reel with unacceptable damage or defects (new print or used), request a new reel immediately, and follow-up with documentation in writing to the distributor and film exchange. A photograph of the damage could even be sent along with the documentation.

Once that print goes through your projector, obvious projector damage (platter scratches, heat damage) may be blamed on you, unless you have documented that another theatre caused the damage. Lab defects (e.g., severe safelight fog, soundtrack application problems, sync problems) are usually replaced without question.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-13-2004 03:17 PM

Brad, I understand that and have ordered replacement reels due to lab defects/damage on multiple occasions. Mike's post appeared to be in response to Adam B's post about being chewed out for ordered a replacement reel for Harry Potter because of damage they casued to it.

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Robert L. Fischer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 145
From: Montreal, Quebec
Registered: May 2004

posted 08-13-2004 04:38 PM

quote: Aaron Sisemore was the last to post
Ok questions, should I tape the tails to the reels or should they go into the slots on the cores?

If you're having trouble getting the end of the tail leader to go back in the reel core and the reel isn't damaged, it's probably because the end of the tail leader is a nice straight line. If this is the case, take the END of the tail leader (not the end that connects to the part of the reel that is the actual movie) and cut off about half of a frame worth of film at an angle. This way, the corner of the film that sticks out the most can be placed in the core first and the rest will follow quite easily.

My company also insists upon using masking tape, but I compensate by using one-sided clear tape splices to attach the head and tail leaders and by peeling extra artist tape off of the leaders in order to keep them wound up while we are showing the movie. For securing the head leaders when shipping out the print, I have no choice but to use masking tape, but this is a little bit more acceptable because it is being used on part of the film that will never run through the projector, even at changeover houses.

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