my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Cyan Tracks (Page 24)

This topic comprises 42 pages: 1  2  3  ...  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  ...  40  41  42

Author Topic: Cyan Tracks Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-14-2004 11:07 PM                  Steve: (And what's REALLY funny, you're right!) >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-15-2004 07:45 AM                        Brad, no doubt the trailer idea is quite do-able, especially since they already do dual inventories of trailers for scope and flat versions. The only thing is, you wouldn't want to use trailer elements as a substitute for real test materials, given what we know of the quality control on most trailers. You sure couldn't use them as a reference level, given that trailers are recorded 6db hotter than they should be in the first place. But certainly just for a cheap, down and dirty, "let's see how this red reader sounds with a cyan track" kind of thing, going to dye tracks on trailers before the cyan features begin rolling out in full force is the sane way to go -- something I would think the SMPTE subcommittee would strongly suggest to all parties involved. In fact,this would be way to gauge how many theatres still are not equipped with red readers. Just send out cyan track trailers exclusively, and then document how many theatres complain that they need silver track versions. That will be the best kind of survey (and a cheap one at that) as to what kind of trouble a distributor will get into (or not) if he goes with a cyan-only release.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-15-2004 07:55 PM                    This has probably been covered and I've forgotten but how does a pure silver track (B&W or Technicolor IB) sound on a red reader?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-15-2004 09:06 PM                        Pure silver should be fine IF the cross-modulation distortion was optimized for that reader. An old track optimized for a tungsten reader will have some sibilant distortion.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2004 12:35 AM                        quote: This has probably been covered and I've forgotten but how does a pure silver track (B&W or Technicolor IB) sound on a red reader? quote: Pure silver should be fine IF the cross-modulation distortion was optimized for that reader. An old track optimized for a tungsten reader will have some sibilant distortion. So those venues that run a mix of classic, new, & international product will be just utterly, hopelessly screwed?  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-16-2004 01:10 AM                    Yup...pretty much.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-16-2004 05:47 AM                        Red LED readers are already in a significant majority of US and Canadian theatres ALREADY. I'm sure many are in theatres playing a "mix of classic, new, & international product". Mr. Guttag's option of switching between red and IR LED arrays is inconvenient, but it works. Future reprints with silver tracks will likely be optimized for red LED.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2004 06:20 AM                        quote: Mr. Guttag's option of switching between red and IR LED arrays is inconvenient That's a service call to do the A chain between a classic movie & a midnight movie, shorts program, or arty movie! I think this weekend I will make an informal survey of art/rep theatres (excluding venues like PAC's) in a major metropolitan area to see what the red reader penetration is. I know that when there's a specific objective there's a tendency to read data in a way that's supportive, but I think this one's leaving the venues that will be most affected concentrated in the tails of the distribution & swinging in the wind. BTW it just occurs to me that this seems to be the largest incompatibility issue that has EVER hit in cinema sound history. Vitaphone & Movietone installations were common & no problem in theaters (& they even ran silents at the same time), optical & mag, digital & optical, just pile the readers on & there's always been backwards compatibility. This is the first yank-it-all-up-by-the-roots, my-way-or-the-highway 'innovation'.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-16-2004 06:39 AM                     The cyan clowns have continually presented their "data" in a deceptive to out right lying ways. Please do report your findings William. John does make one accurate statement...it is most inconvienent to switch between red and other light sources to play the various tracks. A solution may be to have optical penthouses with digital delays to play one or the other soundtrack. BACP made a version of their Penthouse that could do this for one of the large format systems so they could run 35mm too. Steve  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 03-16-2004 07:56 AM                     Going back to the original post, "Anything Else" only played about a week so it wasn't much of a threat. Is there a more significant release on the way? It not, this is just more interesting discussion.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-16-2004 10:55 AM                        Ted Costas of Dolby mentioned that another feature or two using cyan dye analog tracks would be announced next week at ShoWest. Steve: How is your SMPTE technical paper coming? Is your amplitude performance, cross-modulation performance, or noise performance data any different than that presented in fellow "cyan clown" ( ) Paul Goldberg's paper published for peer review in the May 1998 SMPTE Journal?: http://www.dyetracks.org/ci.os.0012.reddye.html Coming to a different conclusion is valid, and well within the scope of rational engineering discussion. But good engineering judgement looks at ALL the factors (including the quality lost due to application problems, and missed opportunities for general improvement), not just one or two that you pick and choose. quote: Submitting a Paper for Publication in the SMPTE Journal Papers from all areas of motion imaging technology are welcome for submission in the Journal. After submission, all papers are reviewed by the Board of Editors. Submitted papers should be sent to SMPTE, at smpte@smpte.org. The SMPTE Board of Editors will help you in your choice of words, choosing more professional terms than "clowns", "bull shit", "bozos", "stupid", "cow farts", "envirowackos", etc., that betray your personal bias.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-16-2004 03:14 PM                    Yes, it would be very interesting if an "anti" article were accepted for publication. Maybe some of us would be less skeptical if there were other sources for the LED array. Is there? Or will one company profit on what is reputed to be something approaching a 12X markup? How about letting the actual manufacturer sell them to all comers? Or some of the other supply firms arranging their own manufacture--I don't think there is anything proprietary about an array of red LED's.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 03-16-2004 04:35 PM                     You can buy the LED at a decent price for replacement purposes from USL but of course expect to pay more for single units versus 100's.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2004 06:04 PM                     Actually the original unveiling of 4 track mag was incompatable until the later mag opt print  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2004 06:42 PM                        Yes, but a theatre equipped for 4-track mag doesn't trouble playing back optical tracks properly. Personally, I've run lots of older prints (including B&W and dye-transfer) on an LED system and I haven't noticed the sound to be particularly bad. Maybe not ideal, but not noticeably "bad." I've heard far worse from misaligned white-light systems. These are all mono prints, using a Simplex 5-star soundhead and CP-500 processor.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 42 pages: 1  2  3  ...  21  22  23  24  25  26  27  ...  40  41  42

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.