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Author
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Topic: Cyan Tracks
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Warren Smyth
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 158
From: Auckland ,New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-09-2004 03:53 AM
No the dirty apes won't be any problem. They will have all drowned. You see, the humans were so foolish, that they allowed themselves to be lulled into a sense of false security. They believed the spin from companies about saving a bit of water, believing it was going to have a really significant positive benefit on the environment, rather like shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic. While they thought the planet was being saved, they continued to drive their four wheel drives to work every day and didn't think to lobby their government to sign international treaties to reduce exhaust emissions. Why should they? Corporations were looking after the planet very nicely, or so the spin suggested.
No one worried about the incidents of skin cancer down the bottom of the globe from the ozone hole opening, or the islands in the Pacific being flooded as sea levels rose. Why should they? It would be their great grandchildren who would eventually see parts of Manhatten under water.
Oh and that sound track, well it's a shame they couldn't hear it. The film just may have been Water World but then, even if they did find a red led reader, unforunately, all the cyan hue would probably have faded.
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 03-09-2004 05:56 AM
quote:
The film just may have been Water World but then, even if they did find a red led reader, unforunately, all the cyan hue would probably have faded.
"Water World" was printed on the much more stable film stocks, so the picture and sound will likely be fine. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Seriously, the movie industry is trying to "Do the Right Thing" for the environment, and cyan dye tracks are only a part of that. Yet some people are willing to put up with acid rain for maybe a few pennies off their electric bill, dump their motor oil and antifreeze down a sewer, or throw out short-lived "planned obsolescence" electronic gear and its payload of heavy metals without properly recycling it.
Most print film is recycled, and almost all the silver is recovered by the labs during processing and reused. Unfortunately, some still ends up in landfills and incinerators.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-09-2004 06:43 AM
Oh where to begin...I do so hate bickering with John P...it give the impression I dislike him...which isn't true...but here it goes.
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Whether you think it is stupid or not, the FACT is that a significant majority of analog readers in developed countries ARE red LED.
John you should quote the full thing since you change the meaning. What was said is that since we had near 100% non-red readers up until about 7 years ago, your arguement was and is stupid since you should have used the "we shouldn't change since the near unanimous majority use a non-compatible reader to cyan"
Next, where do you get your "FACTS" from...Dolby has been cautiously misleading the industry on the installed base of red readers. That is, there is normally a disclaimer that they don't really know how many they've sold since their LED sales go to digital readers, analog readers and replacement LEDs.
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Wide-scale conversion to red LED readers enabled consideration of cyan dye tracks, not vice-versa. Infrared LED readers never gained significant penetration, even though they were available.
What a bunch of misleading bull shit. The cyan push forced the color of the LED to red. At no time was the red reader ever considered superior to the IR reader on any category other than its ability to allow the cyan travisty to continue.
The IR reader was not shunned by the exhibition industry. It, like the red reader was purchased with new equipment and some did upgrades. The only way the red version was bought was because the led was switched to them for no technical improvement...actually a reduction in quality and stability. What did come along with the red LED was the ability to have a basement reader without the hassle of the EPT lamp needing to be fitted somewhere in the optical soundhead. The red LED facilitated the digital basement reader in more soundheads...something that Dolby would have wanted since it benefitted them exclusively.
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The environmental advantages are very real, not hypothetical. A half century's worth of experience shows that soundtrack application is a wasteful procedure that finally can and should be replaced.
At best an opinion that I and others do not share.
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Right now, the MIX of readers is a stalemate situation. It is very unlikely that anyone with red LED analog readers will go back to the "good old days" of only tungsten analog readers, or even install infrared LED arrays (which had never caught on anyway). Since a MIX of readers will continue to require "high magenta" (magenta+silver) tracks for the best compromise for XM distortion, a return to "traditional" (cyan+magenta+silver) tracks is unlikely.
Another silly statement. If the big cyan scare was not there...the IR led would come into prominance. Since the visible LEDs fade at such an accelerated and unpredictable rate, through attrition alone IR LEDs would become a better value. Cost per hour, they are the cheapest. Sonic quality on a fresh track, they are the lowest distortion, lowest noise. They are a plug in replacement.
Ted said (hey that rhymes)
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Steve G., you ignorant slut (kidding). You know the EPA only regulates when it has to.
Yeah, but in the case of the movie industry's applicated soundtrack, it has specifically not had an issue. No legislation is pending. If you could get the EPA on your side, it would have been a slam dunk.
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So far as "how much water is there on the planet" is concerned: Forget about seawater: processing needs clean, fresh water - in the right place.
Don't forget about seawater...make fresh water out of it. The fact that California refuses to make power plants and deslaination plants yet screams about how power companies price gouge them or they run out of water is just plain silly. The planet is too full of water to ignore like that. It is the single biggest resource. It is impossible to be short of it.
Back to John P.
quote:
So widescale implementation of red LED readers was well underway BEFORE the proposal for cyan dye tracks, just as I stated. And the work was far from "threats from the cyan lobby" --- it was a proposal (technical paper presented at the SMPTE) that recognized that acceptance would require that tens of thousands of red LED readers would need to be installed based on their own merit, before any conversion of prints to cyan dye analog tracks could occur.
Your most misleading one to date. Paul G and Ioan A. were both from Dolby when the red reader was introduced (Paul moved to Zoran). Dolby, not the industry had/has reason to push the red reader, it is theirs (the led) and it facilitates their digital system. The red reader was never an improvement to the analog system but an improvment to Dolby's bottom line. The cyan track was the way to push the red LED into every sound head.
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There are many more aspects of print quality than signal-to-noise alone. I've already mentioned the advantage of having a single XM optimization point (i.e., less distortion) if all readers are red LED.
Whereas you come up with any single type of soundhead you can obtain an optimized system. We had a single XM optimized point until the stupid cyan lobby came about...what you are proclaiming an advantage was a problem CREATED by the concept of the cyan track...it isn't the solution, it is problem...what a turn of the facts.
If you read the "Technical Paper" you will see how red LED "people" spin their psudoscience. First they acknowledge that there is a reduction in level when using red LEDs versus white light or IR. Then they change the soundtrack, then they say....look it is the white light/IR systems that have a reduction in level by a whopping 11dB. Never mind that at no time does the red reader ever have the highest S/N nor lowest distortion as compared to the best system...IR reader with applicated track.
One of the things that has allowed film to last as long as it has as compared to other industries is that it is pretty much fully backward compatible for a century...the cyan optical track throws that away...an existing projector can not play it and furthermore an archive that has thousands of existing prints can't just switch readers without significant increases in distortion. The cyan clowns just want to throw that all away to pursue at most 6-months more film prominance (when digital cinema finally does come) or to sell the stupid light sources. As to the labs, put up or shut up...either pay for the red readers so you can save big or shut up about the costs.
Steve
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