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Topic: Cyan Tracks

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-09-2004 03:11 PM

One idea would be to book "Anything Else" from Dreamworks. I think Dolby has some test footage, as well as the "Red Alert" film in the UK that was available from the BKSTS.

http://www.davidbyrne.plus.com/Films/RedAlert.html

Dye Track Meeting UK

quote:
Red Alert
Following the completion of Red Alert, a discussion was held on the requirements for distribution. Before any prints can be sent out, a letter must be sent to each of the chief engineers of each cinema chain. Graham Edmondson circulated a draft of a document that included a section on loudness of commercials. For clarity, it may be better to split up the two subjects and circulate individual notes for each topic. A revised copy is attached with these minutes. Once the preliminary information had been circulated, the process of distributing the prints can begin. The NSS has been approached by to organise the circulation. Once the number of prints required has been decided, although Technicolor will do the printing and processing, each print requires a pos splice. This can become a time consuming process and options should be sought on how to do the splices in the easiest (cheapest) way possible. Steve O'Pray offered to approach David DeWilde of FMS. It may also be possible to split the large order into batches of a few hundred thereby minimising the amount of work required by each party at any one time. On the 3rd May, the BKSTS is holding a dye track information evening that will include a screening of Red Alert. The evening is being held at BVI headquarters in Hammersmith.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 03-09-2004 04:14 PM

USL-Ultra Stereo Labs had cyan test film available in short rolls for testing. The Woody Allen test did not really have the same aural sense of an action film since his films play back in mono, no matter the format. I prefer LED-Laser vs exciter bulb since most cinemas are not handling classic product...signal to noise maybe slighly lower but then again the room noise and popcorn bags help mask that limitation [Wink]

I worked in two small film labs with the machines running ( at that time ) at 50 + feet a minute and even that slow speed sound track application maintinance was a pain.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-09-2004 05:53 PM

quote:
I worked in two small film labs with the machines running ( at that time ) at 50 + feet a minute and even that slow speed sound track application maintinance was a pain.

At a whopping 50 feet per minute, you could process about 6 prints in a 24-hour day! It would take about 1000 days to make 6000 prints that are now typical of a large release. Have things changed!

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-09-2004 06:16 PM

quote:
Surely the least that the Dye Track Committee (or Dolby or a lab or someone else) can do would be to print up some dye track material and sell it for a reasonable fee.

The UK dye track committee produced "Red Alert" a couple of years back. It's a short film that explains the issue, and begins with a high-magenta track and ends with a cyan track. But you have to put up with the very British humour.

Here in Australia, we've supplied short sections of cyan dye track as a demo, to a few exhibitors who've asked for it. It shouldn't be too hard for any other lab to do this too. John, has the dyetrack committee attempted to coordinate anything like this?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-10-2004 07:39 PM

Dominic --

What would be the minimum footage and approximate cost to shoot a 35mm optical track with SR noise reduction (from magfilm, 1/4" tape, DAT, whatever) and then make a 35mm dye-track print on color stock with blank picture area? If Atlab could do this for anything approaching a reasonable cost (say $100-200, total), I'd definitely be interested. Better yet, if you have existing track negative that is optimized for dye track prints and doesn't have copyright issues, I'd be very happy with print material from that.

And if anyone else is interested, maybe we can get together and share the cost (hint, hint).

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Christos Mitsakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 242
From: Ag.Paraskevi, ATHENS, GREECE
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 03-11-2004 09:26 AM

Has anyone heard about Dolby Cat No 764 analogue cyan 90 sec dialogue test film? I can't remember in which site I read about it (I just wrote down its cat no). Does it exist and if so I think Scott is what you're asking for.
Regards,
Christos.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-11-2004 09:43 AM

I wonder if the 8-minute mix and picture negative for the Dolby Cat. No.351 "Listen" test film still exists, and could be used to make a new Dolby SR subjective test film for cyan dye track? An "oldie but goodie".

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-11-2004 04:53 PM

quote:
I wonder if the 8-minute mix and picture negative for the Dolby Cat. No.351 "Listen" test film still exists, and could be used to make a new Dolby SR subjective test film for cyan dye track? An "oldie but goodie".

I'm working on getting something together locally, but it would be far more sensible for a US lab to do something along the lines that John suggests, to meet Scott's suggestion.

John, perhaps the dyetrack committee could broker this without too much trouble?? Copies to distributors to send out to their overseas arms would be a good idea too!

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-11-2004 09:46 PM

Tone and noise for starters. (I'm reluctant to call it pink noise when it's on cyan! LOL)

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Lindsay Morris
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Darlington, WA, Australia
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 03-12-2004 02:20 AM

Dominic,

I have a piece of that Cyan track produced by ATLAB and handed out at the Movie Convention last year.
Do you know if the level of tone on that is in fact Dolby Tone or just any old level done in Cyan to show it can be done.
Reason I ask is that I have been trying to compare levels thru the processor using an ACL laser unit in place of tungsten exciter but in the process of messing about the conventional Dolby loop ran off a sprocket and shredded itself before I could accurately get some figures.
If it is Dolby tone it seems that if I set the processor up for correct level on Cyan when I play a conventional Hi Magenta track the levels seem way to high.
If this is the case we may have some further compatability problems when switching from Cyan tracked prints to Hi Magenta or even old B&W tracks.
I would expect that once equipped with Red led or laser sources cinemas should not be diving into an A chain alignment everytime a different sort of print was run... lets face it there is going to be heaps of B&W soundtracked prints around for ages to come and the last thing we need is to be adjusting for each different type of track.
I have asked my supplier for some more B&W Dolby tone but so far they have been rather slow in producing the goods.
Hopefully when I get some I may have some figures on what differences I am seeing between Cyan and B&W tracks when using a laser reader.
Lindsay

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-12-2004 01:02 PM

I asked the folks at Dolby Laboratories about any cyan dye track film, and here is Ioan Allen's reply:

quote:
John,

We already have a film on the market to show the effect of the cyan track. It's a voice only film that begins on silver, and then splices to cyan, about 150 feet long. The number is Cat. No. No. 764, and it sells for $75. It's available from any Dolby equipment dealer.

See you at ShoWest!

Best regards,

Ioan

So Christos Mitsakis had it exactly right. [thumbsup]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-12-2004 01:18 PM

Perfect! Many thanks to Christos and John! I'll order it next week.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 03-12-2004 02:19 PM

I still say someone needs to be doing this with previews. A studio could release an "A" version trailer in cyan with it clearly labeled as such. It would give everyone a strip of film they could run as those theaters who haven't converted (notice I didn't say "upgraded" [Wink]

) to see how it will affect them. It could even be an attached trailer, but I think if documentation was sent out that a certain trailer was going to have a cyan track that people would run it out of curiosity.

Few people will blow $75 like Scott to get a strip.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-12-2004 04:14 PM

Phil drops more than that on the first dancer alone. [evil]

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-14-2004 11:04 PM

quote:
I have a piece of that Cyan track produced by ATLAB and handed out at the Movie Convention last year.

I believe it was supposed to be accurate Dolby level tone, but I didn't handle it myself so I can't swear to it. It was designed as a simple demo of what the cyan tracks look like, and a redLED vs silver track demonstration.

Cyan tracks should play within about 1db of regular silver tracks on a correct reader. On a tungsten reader you will be about 12db down (or 12db UP on silver if you have set up on the cyan!)

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