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Author
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Topic: Union Projectionists
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-05-2005 05:51 AM
quote: Brad Miller
Seriously guys, stand back and look at the situation fairly.
True, please look at this fairly in the observer's eyes, not your own.
See it as from a third person's view, not directly.
Big thing is: You're getting your wage and salary just as the union, nor non-union projectionist is getting his. So, what's the difference?
Your task is different from his, yet both of you are doing a job and earning money-not the same amount, but you two are earning money. What's the difference?
Your cookie has chocolate chips on it and theirs have butterscotch chips on it, yet it's a cookie. What's the difference?
I'm basically a "victim" of the "cold war" on unions, being a former union member myself.
Like me for instance and I'll go first to show the forum what I did and describe a little history of my operations:
(I've posted this pict before in other forums, but I want to post this again for my comment on this topic...)
This booth was my "home" for 9 yrs. This Simplex "XL's" and Peerless setup were my "babies." I knew every little inch of these machines. I would take them apart and put them back together, brush, wipe and clean as best as I could. I ran MagOptical a few times here.
This pict was taken from the entranceway to the booth to show both machines completely. This pict was taken in 1979. As you can see, we had carpet in this booth (which was the old theatre carpet that used to be before the new carpet was installed in the mid 60's). To the lower right is my desk and TV/Radio that is not in the picture. Over to the other side, out of view is the rewind machine to where below the rewind machine was a small fridge, toaster and hotplate. The bathroom was in the next room adjacent to the booth.
In the 9 years at this theatre I was "confined" to this booth, 6 days a week, almost 12 hrs a day during the summer. I made good money during this time being on a hourly wage. Even though this theatre concluded the union contracts at this time, I was paid union scale wages and yearly increases, per mentioned in the previous contracts. I carried my own films upstairs, where beforehand, the theatre employees HAD to carry the films upstairs when the contract was in force. If I did any stage work, I was paid extra for this since I knew the light panel, the stage gear, and the flywork for backdrops. Plus being paid extra for building maintenance, like furnace cleaning (coal fired), seat repairs, some fill-in janitorial, and other matters that needed attention.
Yes, I was receiving contention/appreciation from the managers that would be assigned to this theatre on transfers. Some hated me, and some really was thankful for me since THEY didn't have to worry about the task upstairs. You might say, I "relieved", of those who like me, of duties that they didn't want to worry about, even though they themselves were MO's at other theatres. I was earning my "reward" for my talents and skills.
The ones that hated me were simply jealous and spiteful due to the fact that:
1)-they couldn't "control" me since I was under the juridiction of the corporate office, or you might say, I had support from the higher up.
2)- I was garnishing a wage more than the regular employee (and sometimes the manager himself).
3)- I wasn't, and didn't have to be a "team player", but instead a skilled specialist within the building AND didn't have to be told what to do, I did what I wanted to do, and come and go as I please during intermissions.
4)- My task wasn't being "productive" and "useful" - I should be downstairs cleaning auditoriums, selling concessions, sweeping carpets, wearing a "monkey suit", et.al.
5)- My wage was set. If I worked 5hrs I was paid for 6. If I worked a 10hr day, I was paid for 12 hrs. If I worked before noon and through midnite, I was paid overtime on each end of the "12" on the clock face.
6)- I was successful in my field and they, and the staff, knew this. And these kinds of managers didn't like this at all. For they thought that they were the only ones who could be successful and be this way due to all of the training and headaches they received from the office upstairs. They, themselves didn't like the competition for success, from a lowly "projectionist".
I believe that the the third one was the "sliver under the nail" to most of them.
Yet, when one would see this from the outside world, I was an extremely important asset to this theatre.
The outside world simply doesn't understand what is REALLY going on inside of this world of the union, thus they draw conclusions of their own, then cast judgement of what they see without being within and experiencing what's inside of this world.
A one-sided opinion, and a "unfair" opinion at that.
....there is always two sides to a story.
If we're going to be fair about things, we need to see both sides before casting a conclusion.
I know basically why of unions is that with unions, it means security to our careers, not just jobs. As one puts it - "if one isn't making at least $12.00/hr, it isn't a professional job." ... and that's basically what we're defending as union members, is that we're a bunch of PROFESSIONAL guys that DESERVE a decent wage to support our CAREERS...as projectionists, or whatever in the theatre exhibition world.
What's really the big kicker about all of this is that the theatre exhibition business doesn't need any college, or upper level education to go work for. This occupation is basically a part-time, walk off the street get an application to get a job, stepping stone sort of occuation. Even the managers nowdays->pulled from the floor to be made floor staff supervisors, assistant managers and eventually to the manager position. The theatre company you in "shoves" you through a tube to "push" you out in a flow in a certain way on how things are to be. They have always had "big brother" glowering over your shoulder in making sure that things are in accordiance to the policies and procedures of the company-and to make sure that "your" theatre is run the way "your" theatre is supposed to be. You're a "tool" to be used.
..even these location's operators-pushed in the mould in certain ways and procedures of booth operations. Some like it and do well, whereas some hate it and don't care-it's a "job", not a career to them.
...Union projectionists never had any of this...they controlled themselves.
-thx for listening. ..... Monte
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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-05-2005 05:01 PM
quote: Brad Miller
Mike this is a waste of everyone's time. No matter what anyone says I don't expect for you or Jim to let up on the anti-union stance and realize that there ARE bad union guys just like there there ARE bad non-union guys. (Just remember not every manager is worth a smelly pile of warm dog shit either. Fact of the matter is I have known at many times over the quantity of lousy managers than I have known bad union projectionists.) Just because someone is union does NOT mean they are a bad person or bad at their profession.
Brad, I never said that all union operators were bad. I do know quite a few union or former union members that are now engineers that are quite sharp and helpful. I also know a few union and former union engineers who are dumb as a post. Its not the union card that makes anyone good or bad, its the quaility of the person themselves and the quality of the training they have recieved.
However, you are correct, nothing you can say will change my view on the union itself simply because nothing will change my view on an organization who allows the continued existance of one of its chapters who set off what the FBI called "weapons of mass destruction" in my theatre. Do I blame individual IATSE members who are not in Chicago? No. However, I do, and always will, blame the organization whose culture breed such acts of violence and has done nothing to make amends.
quote: Brad Miller
Your insinuations are probably getting borderline offensive to some of the union members here who do quality work and take pride in their jobs.
Actually, Mike made a very valid point. One of the "talking points" of a few of the guys here is that a manager/operator cannot possibly do a good job because they are too busy paying attention to the floor. How is that different than watching TV?
quote: Monte L Fullmer
3)- I wasn't, and didn't have to be a "team player", but instead a skilled specialist within the building AND didn't have to be told what to do, I did what I wanted to do, and come and go as I please during intermissions.
At the last theatre I was at I had a salaried booth manager. This guy was one of the best projectionists I have had and had total control of his booth. He did his own hiring, scheduling, etc. Did I care what he was doing between shows? No, because his presentations were excellent, his booth was immaculate, and he was always on top of everything.
At the same time, he was a team player. While he was downstairs doing presentation checks or getting a soda, etc, he was also "wearing his manager hat" and correcting whatever problems he came across. By doing so, he made himself a more valuable member of the team than he would have been had he ignored whatever non-booth items he saw.
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John Walsh
Film God
Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted 03-05-2005 09:43 PM
Not taking sides or anything, but the Chicago 110 people I complimented in a previous post wore the theater's uniform. If someone asked them a non-easy question, they politely referred the customer to a manager.
Anyone who thinks every union operator won't wear a uniform, won't carry their own cans up, or can't be removed for poor work, etc. is wrong.
I would not allow TV's or couches in the booth, or other excessive creature comforts. It just looks bad. It would only take one thing to happen, and there would always be the suspicion someone was watching TV and let a problem develop. Besides, a booth is like a sailboat: there's always something to clean, fix, etc. I also would not allow timers; I'm sorry if the operator has to walk to the far side of the booth, but the customer must not see any problems. Refrige's and microwaves were OK, because if you're stuck there all day it's too expensive to get take-out. Besides, the guys were intitled to a 1/2 hour break, which they never took, in exchange for being able to cook their own stuff right there. I felt that was an acceptable trade-off.
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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-05-2005 10:44 PM
quote: Brad Miller
Still though, your idea that a projectionist should put on a uniform is a horrible idea. Let's take someone who knows how to run the booth and has no particular training downstairs and let's make him LOOK like a floor employee to the customers so they will come up and ask him questions. Oh yeah, brilliant! Then even when he tries to be a "team player" and happens to answer the question wrong, the manager has to deal with "your employee told me this". It's just dumb. Projectionists should look like other customers when doing auditorium walks.
When I said "wearing his manager's hat" that was a figurative statement. In that booth, all staff were casual. When he was on the floor the customers didn't know he was staff. However, if he saw something wrong, he got it corrected (and woe to any floor staff who gave him attitude).
Personally, provided the uniform isn't unsafe for booth wear, I don't see a problem with requiring it to be worn. At the 20 screen where I ran the booth and floor departments, the booth staff was uniformed. ABout half of them worked part time in the booth and part time as floor supervisors, so they knew the answers to whatever questions. The rest who were in the booth 100% of the time were kept in the loop on most things and, if they didn't know the answer, would just get on the radio and get the answer.
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 03-06-2005 02:23 AM
quote: Jim Ziegler
.... he was also "wearing his manager hat" and correcting whatever problems he came across. By doing so, he made himself a more valuable member of the team than he would have been had he ignored whatever non-booth items he saw.
Now a big question on this: (do you work at the EDW's in Fresno?) When I was booth manager at my EDW's 21 in charge of 5 guys, I wasn't even allowed to intervene with the downstairs situations at all (which didn't bother me a bit-didn't want to take that kind of responsibility, plus wear "monkey suits" - just look clean and present myself as a Manager of sorts), for anything downstairs was in the Operations end of the spectrum whereas I was in the Engineering end of the spectrum. The two never mixed, even though I did help out as a "team player" at times with the staff, but was recommended that I keep my distance, for if the staff see any of the projection people helping out, then the staff will be expecting me and my guys to help them out, and this is what Operations didn't want to happen.
Thus, the question is: If this booth manager has this much freedom, does he draw contention from the floor staff, saying "why is he telling me what to do, whereas I DO have a supervisor to answer to" type of thing, knowing that his assigned department is really booth manager, than if it was the manager, assistant manager, floor supervisior, concessions supervisor, et.al. giving the orders. Or has this been presented to the staff of his title and his title also extends to the floor?
You might say, this above was a similar situation that I mentioned in an earlier post of me being "caught" by the head projectionist when I was downstairs helping out a problem.
My job is upstairs, not downstairs.
..and I still had my fridge and microwave upstairs and I would "sneak" in the TV once in a while to watch Superbowl, or the Oscars...(lol)...and the Manager would come in the booth and watch these with me..(lol).
thx-Monte
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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 03-06-2005 04:41 AM
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Now a big question on this: (do you work at the EDW's in Fresno?) When I was booth manager
Nope.. I work for an independant right now.
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Thus, the question is: If this booth manager has this much freedom, does he draw contention from the floor staff, saying "why is he telling me what to do, whereas I DO have a supervisor to answer to" type of thing, knowing that his assigned department is really booth manager, than if it was the manager, assistant manager, floor supervisior, concessions supervisor, et.al. giving the orders. Or has this been presented to the staff of his title and his title also extends to the floor?
This particular manager was a salaried manager and "out ranked" any hourly staff or management. I try to install defined chains of command in my theatres. Regardless of department, ranks are to be respected. There were many times when he was on duty in the booth and an hourly manager was the manager on duty - however, the hourly was expected to follow any instructions the salaried booth manager might give them..
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-06-2005 04:54 PM
Funny,
TVs were never allowed in my booths...union or non. In fact, it could be a dismissal offense. Furthermore, who would want to give the company the impression that they were paying their employees to watch TV?
The rule I grew up with was books are okay, radios are okay...but not both at the same time....that is your sense were not to be too distracted.
I've been in the position of carrying the prints to the booth and not being required to...what is the big deal? I've never had the the attitude given me that I was being arrogant because a floor staff person brought the print to the booth.
The only incident on that that I ever had was when a manager of another theatre wanted me to break down my print onto 6000' reels and carry it to her car....two flaws...we didn't use 6000' reels (reel to reel) and I wasn't going to build up the print for her and second, I was busy with my own theatre converting from 35 to 70mm, checking in that print, and resetting the theatre for 70mm (any masking change at the Uptown is a chore...machines get retilted, masking is manual and indenpendant on each side). She made the mistake of giving my her Nazi attitude of "do what I say" (again not the manager of this theatre and couldn't care less what was needed to be done here).
I told her that if she ever displayed that attitude again and that much disrespect that her prints in the future would not only not be on 6000' reels but would probably not all be in the same orientation and that she was unwelcomed in the booth at this theatre (this was explained to the Uptown manager, who backed us up).
The result...we never got that attitude out of her again and we got an apology.
I've genrally had a very harmonius relationship with the managers I've worked with and we normally funciton as a team on providing the best presentation possible.
In relation to Monte's story on working on the popper downstairs...I too was admonished a long time ago while working a single and helping to get supplies for the concession stand. This was a NON-Union situation where the supervisor understood the team effort thing but also did not want the projectionist to have it turn into "job description." We had the best record in the area if not the country on lost shows and print damange. If you had time downstairs to help out, you probably had time to do a better job of cleaning the equipment or otherwise take care of the booth. Plus, if you had a break...TAKE IT.
It may have been from a different time, but I haven't seen that attention to the show paid since.
Steve
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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 03-06-2005 06:43 PM
The reason that I am pro union is that ideally , it can ensure that its members have a specified level of expertise in their specialized field while negotiating a fair wage!
Unions and Trade Organizations work with both the Federal and State governments as well as accredited community colleges and universities in putting together apprentice programs. For example, the NTMA (National Tooling and Machining Association)
has a widely recognized Tool, Die, Moldmaker's apprenticeship.
SME (Society of Manufacturing Engineers), of which I am a student member, works in close relation with universities offering various Manufacturing Engineering degrees. After graduation, and after getting some experience under your belt, an applicant is allowed to take Manufacturing Engineering Certification Exams, which tells prospective employeers that you really know your stuff!
When I worked for my last theatre, there was never a tv or crap like that in the booths. Just too much work to do!
At that theatre, I was the only person with extensive mechanical experience. Several times I prevented dark screens when it would have taken a tech a day or more to get on-site! I did what I did out of shear love of being a craftsman, w/o any extra $$, with my own private tools, and ended up being treated very badly for my efforts!
Among the other "projectionists" were some pretty competitent film-handlers...but none had the training or devotion to showmanship as the experienced union guys that I have had the pleasure of knowing and learning from!
And some of those popcorn jockeys that they had in the booth were fairly lazy....messing around with their private business while ignoring their job. They new they could get away with their shtick because a few other people would pick up the slack. And oh, were there some real "pros" ![[Mad]](mad.gif) in that booth!
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