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Author Topic: HATEFUL EIGHT 70mm - all discussion Tyler Purcell Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Van Nuys, CA Registered: Dec 2015 posted 12-18-2015 09:53 PM                        I do think people are tired of the 3D revolution! I know people will pay a premium to see something in 70mm IF it was originated in that format, like Hateful Eight. My only concern is hollywood using it as the new "gimmick" and simply scanning out digital onto film, which is a waste of money and time. That would ultimately not work, but hey I can't complain. If Hateful Eight projection is a success in the box office, it may be big news to the studio's. I've had LONG talks with the powers at be over at Panavision about potentially making an all-new 65mm camera and they were contemplating it. They have the movements and all the CAD drawings to machine them on their mill, it's just a matter of the demand. Arri was going to dismantle their 765 fleet and they're actually all out on productions to this day! Same goes for al the cameras in Germany. Right now if you wanted to shoot on 65mm, you'd have a hard time booking a camera. So in my eyes, that's pretty good news for the future of large-format filmmaking. Not saying digital is bad, but 70mm 5/70 and 15/70 is just better and in my eyes, it's the experience current theaters are lacking. It's an exciting time to be involved with the film industry, I'll say that much! it's an opportunity for younger people to learn film production and handling.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 12-19-2015 01:21 AM                     I did some sort of press/preview screening of HF-8 tonight and I was quite surprised when the old C-I-N-E-R-A-M-A banner came up on screen right after the Weinstein logo at the start. Wasn't expecting that! Nice surprise! Another surprise- - - You don't see many movies that list a "chicken wrangler" in the credits. . .  |  IP: Logged Simon Wyss Film Handler Posts: 80 From: Basel, BS, Switzerland Registered: Apr 2011 posted 12-19-2015 03:59 AM                     Why not six analogue optical tracks on 70mm prints? Absolutely feasible, no danger of magnetic damage, no additional thickness, no striping needed, printed together with the image, no head wear, linear response, and at 5 perfs. times 5 per frame times 24 per second there are 570 mm of linear surface for resolution. Slit height of half a mil delivers 22.4 kHz limit frequency.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 12-19-2015 07:02 AM                     quote: It's an exciting time to be involved with the film industry, I'll say that much! Never thought I would hear that........  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 12-19-2015 11:38 AM                        Simon: my understanding is that it's no longer possible to make mag release prints, because the adhesive needed to stick the oxide onto the surface of the film base contains a chemical that has been banned under international climate change prevention rules, and that basically the demand for them is so tiny that it's not viable to do the R & D to come up with an alternative.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-19-2015 11:55 AM                     Simon said "Why not six analogue optical tracks on 70mm prints? Absolutely feasible, no danger of magnetic damage, no additional thickness, no striping needed, printed together with the image, no head wear, linear response, and at 5 perfs. times 5 per frame times 24 per second there are 570 mm of linear surface for resolution. Slit height of half a mil delivers 22.4 kHz limit frequency" For a limited market the design of a optical camera to record and a playback soundhead would be prohibitive for the number made Even the DTS timecode track is a stretched 35mm one Mag striping is still possible but one would have to provide enough prints to make it worth while to start the line The solvent is easily captured so it doesnt reach the enviroment It is the same solvents as used for recording tape  |  IP: Logged Tyler Purcell Expert Film Handler Posts: 180 From: Van Nuys, CA Registered: Dec 2015 posted 12-19-2015 12:29 PM                        Does anyone know why dolby didn't develop a 70mm dolby digital system? I assume it was due to 70mm being phased out since 35mm had dolby digital. Still, digital audio on 70mm could easily be done using a digital scheme between the sprockets or on the sides of the 70mm print stock like SDDS. Optical/analog solutions aren't worth contemplating in my opinion. Adding optical tracks wouldn't really do justice to the format. Big picture needs big audio in my opinion. The original 6 track mag solution which later had Dolby noise reduction, doesn't sound too bad, due to the speed of the film running through the projector and the pretty decent width of the tracks. Optical would sound way worse in my opinion.  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 12-19-2015 12:37 PM                        quote: Tyler Purcell Does anyone know why dolby didn't develop a 70mm dolby digital system? I don't know for sure, but my best guess is that developing 70mm SRD would have undermined one of the main selling points for SRD itself, which was that the studios could have awesome sound without paying to make 70mm prints.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 12-19-2015 12:43 PM                     For those of you who might be curious- - "Print Move" at 7am this morning. It was delivered a couple of days ago, but theater staff has been too busy, thanks to Star Wars, to deal with getting it up to the booth. So they brought professional movers in. At this location, the elevator doesn't stop at the booth level. So it was easier to go up to the floor above, and bring it DOWN the stairs rather than try to carry it UP. Safely on the platter! It took 4 guys to do the move (5, if you count me supervising) Top deck was removed to make lifting & centering it on the middle platter easier.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-19-2015 03:30 PM                     Bobby, Dual-band sound is something that has been doable for decades and decades (think Cinerama or Fantasound, if you want). In later years, I did countless screenings with dubbers interlocked to prints. In the DTS/Datasat realm, there have been timecode chasers as IMAX competitors and even IMAX also always was double-band first using conventional dubbers and then migrating over to the likes of CDs. So yes, the technology has been around take a time code and have the sound chase the picture (or whatever device has the blessed timecode. There is the question of putting that in conventional theatre hands and taking the risk of something going wrong as well as the cost versus the number of venues that would utilize it. Having the DCP interlocked to a film projector is an interesting prospect. I would presume that the systems set up for dual projector 3D would have the timecode chasing ability and it would be a matter of having a device that would take the Datasat time code (since that is what would be on the film) and having either software in the DCinema system or a box that converted it to usable timecode (I believe Datasat uses its own proprietary time code. Like so many things...the technology is certainly there but there would have to be enough interest. Certainly, it would have cost less to adapt the Datasat time code to a DCP server than all of this effort over UP70 versus good old SP70 (that would have been a bigger picture in 99.9% of the venues running it). I think it will be a matter of if this 70mm thing catches on as an "Event" distinction or is a flash in the pan that brought nothing perceivable (from the spreadsheet standpoint) to the table. Then again, this industry is so lazy that when they made a DCP of a genuine Todd AO movie of Oklahoma!, they didn't offer the ToddAO 6-track mix as a version file but instead offered a 5.1 (naturally to ensure it plays everywhere) and a stupid 7.1 version where the back surrounds are dead during the entire movie. Thus far, the only excuse I've been given is that the people that did the DCP mix "thought" that no or very few theatres could have played back the 6.0 mix (wrong) and that those that want the 6.0 mix had/have the option of getting the Atmos mix to get the full 5-screen channels. Now think about that one. They didn't want to provide 6.0 version file because that they thought that the type of venue that would play a "classic" title like Oklahoma! would not be able to handle a 6.0 mix (it would be in the 7.1SDS format in DCI vernacular...a defined format and one of the few)...but instead "thought" that there would be more Atmos theatres likely to play the title and put forth the time/effort to create an Atmos mix of an Academy Award winning sound mix rather than, at least, provide the original mix as an option. These are the people you want to "think" about giving 70mm options on sound mixes? They live in their own bubble of Hollywood and what they see immediately around them. ANY cinema that has some form of matrix sound processor can handle a 7.1SDS (think SDDS' format) with the most simple of configurations...processors like the QSC DCP, Datasat AP20, Q-Sys, CP850 and ANY generic DSP based sound processor. This isn't very hard to do. It doesn't require special skills and can be cued just like any other DCP movie. The set up isn't complicated. Here is an example: I would have liked if QT had offered a version of H8 with either an SDDS-8 track formation or go whole hog and have 5-across, plus 4 surround and subwoofer. Again, just version files and if you are going to do the widest picture, put five speakers back there to fill the width of your image (for those that can). Those sites that play classic 70mm titles have had the option for the original 6-track mixes on most of those titles and seem to do just fine.  |  IP: Logged Aron Toplitsky Expert Film Handler Posts: 113 From: Gardena, CA, USA Registered: May 2012 posted 12-19-2015 06:23 PM                     Forgive me for not knowing the answer to this question, since I'm not a "film handler" as it indicates on my profile, which by the way I have been unable to change, anyway which sound format are 70MM prints using these days? I would think still DTS encoded on the print with the CD-ROM audio disk separate? Can an object based mix be done for a 70MM print?  |  IP: Logged Terry Monohan Master Film Handler Posts: 379 From: San Francisco CA USA Registered: May 2014 posted 12-19-2015 07:04 PM                     Thanks Jim for posting the images. Can you imagine If the platter film rolled out of the crate box and got loose down the stairs.  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-19-2015 08:19 PM                     Aron, you are correct It's the same system as DTS sound for 35mm with the time code instead of printed inboard between the sprockets and picture, printed on one side where magnetic tracks used to be applied. I don't believe the DTS film system ever expanded beyond 5.1 channels. Also, the later processors had the ability to copy the audio off of the CD-ROM discs into an onboard hard drive to minimize the chance of playback being interrupted due to disc damage or other equipment failure. A lot of these 70mm DTS installs also employ two stacked processors with one acting as a failover.  |  IP: Logged Aron Toplitsky Expert Film Handler Posts: 113 From: Gardena, CA, USA Registered: May 2012 posted 12-19-2015 09:38 PM                     Thanks for the info Sean. I guess it makes sense for 70MM not to expand beyond 5.1 since digital cinema has become the norm. I find it particularly interesting how the audio is imported from the discs on some processors. That makes total sense. So let me throw a question out there for all who care to answer. I’m a huge fan of cinema, especially the tech side of things, which is why I’m on this site. There are some things I’ve read that just go over my head, but I’ve learned a lot. Most of what you guys talk about on this site reminds me of some of the work I do in broadcasting, for example dealing with servers, files and of course video. My question, what advice would you all have if someone like myself wanted to get into the theatrical digital projection world, in the city of Los Angeles?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-19-2015 11:13 PM                     Sean, yes dts has "special venue" systems and various options to increase the channel count and layout. Also very few of these Hateful Eight installs are actually using stacked processors for failover redundancy.  |  IP: Logged

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