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Author
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Topic: HATEFUL EIGHT 70mm - all discussion
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-03-2016 09:30 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
I have a hard time not taking offense at people trying to claim this effort on the part of BLSI & Weinstein was a failure.
Is anyone actually claiming that? I think that the result so far has surpassed most expectations (including mine). The film itself is good and the ticket-buying public is responding to that. The prints seem to have mostly survived intact (so far). And the number of lost 70mm shows seems to be going down (or at least the crazy Internet people have stopped going to see it). In the Boston market (three theaters, two of which are permanent 70mm installations), to my knowledge, there has been exactly one lost 70mm show (at one of the permanent installs; I am told that it was fixed quickly), and that was due to a freak mid-show part failure, not an installation, maintenance, or operator problem. I am sure that many other markets have had similar success rates.
I give QT and TWC (and BL&S and everyone else involved with this) a huge amount of credit for trying to do somthing different and special with this release. I don't know what the expectations were for boxoffice grosses, but the press seems to think that the H8 grosses are very good thus far. I hope that other distributors and filmmakers take note and consider doing more 70mm releases in the future. Next time, maybe the press screenings will go better.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-03-2016 12:51 PM
quote: Mike Babb
Yet most of 100 working right now projecting film are not here. Why do you think that is? My guess is it's a bit like a bacon and shit sandwich. Regardless of how much you like bacon, it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
My guess is threefold, and none of them have anything to do with non-kosher recipes.
1. At least some of those working on the project did so under non-disclosure agreements. TWC and BLSI were quite cagey about the publicity aspects of it. I was asked not to mention the preview screenings we did on this forum before they happened, and would speculate that the BLSI temporary hires were required to sign a formal NDA.
2. Brad's business is in competition with BLSI, which will also have been a, shall we say, limiting influence on the presence of project insiders discussing the H8 release on this site.
3. If you look at the registered dates of most of the regular contributors on this forum, you'll see that most of us first used it at least a decade ago. Most of this professional and/or interest-specific discussion has moved to social media sites such as Facebook, Reddit and Linkedin starting in the late '00s. Personally I don't like the privacy implications of these sites (big businesses collecting big data about you). I did reluctantly register on Linkedin, because I basically had to when looking for a job a couple of years ago, but still prefer independently run forums to the social media gorillas for my online professional interaction. But I, and I suspect most of the other regulars on this site, are essentially in a minority now.
So I don't think it's fair to characterize the contributors to this site as embittered outsiders who wanted this project to be a disaster. We were afraid that if it had been a disaster, that would have poisoned the well for future 5/70 releases, and possibly for niche interest 35mm releases as well. In the event and from what I've read and heard, it seems to have been essentially a success, with far fewer reports of trashed prints than was the case with Interstellar or The Master, and very good audiences to boot. The fact that in the event, BLSI took a very hands-on approach to supervising the shows, even in the permanent installation venues (which I get the impression was not their game plan in the early stages), was probably a major part of the reason why.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-03-2016 02:59 PM
Leo,
1. I never signed any NDA, but I have had inside knowledge of a decent amount of what has been going on over the last several months. I never wrote about it and composed my posts carefully based upon not giving the illusion of knowing anything because I didn't want to interfere in any way with the possibility of this project being a success. Remember, during the day my focus is our completely automated (to my definition) digital projection system, but once the day is over my romance is still with film.
2. I don't understand your competition comment. Film-Tech is not in competition with BLSI. I would have never accepted the contract to source and rebuild 100 systems. While yes I've got the facility and staff to have properly handled SOME aspects of such a massive undertaking, no way would I have even considered what BLSI took on.
I'm sure the rest of the last few "film" companies out there like Cardinal Sound are in exactly the same boat as I am too. It's just not realistic, and I personally won't accept or even bid on a job if I am not 100% positive it is within my company's means to produce the task exactly to expectations and on time.
The reason is because I've simply no desire to outsource and contract out tons of this sort of work like BLSI had to do for this to become a reality. This is because everyone's standards of quality are different and I wouldn't be able to personally oversee and ensure the work being performed was up to my expectations. For example, let's say I outsourced 30 systems to Bob's Film Repair Company. That's great and all, but I would still not be willing to send those systems out into the field until my crew had been through and thoroughly tested all 30 of them. At that point, just how much time did that subcontract actually save? Some time? Yes. A lot of time? Probably not.
3. The reason people post more to facebook and so forth is because people want to play around on their phones all the time and it's quite simply...easy. The problem with social media discussions is they are not archived. While some people will foolishly claim that they are archived, actually trying to find information via past discussions on facebook and social media platforms becomes exponentially harder as time goes on, so it is not a viable archive platform in reality. The end result is anyone participating in any discussion on those forums is essentially temporarily discussing it, and months and years down the road the pictures and knowledge in those discussions will be lost forever. (That could happen sooner as places like facebook decide to dump older content on a whim too.) That's why the primary focus of this forum since 1999 has always been to archive, archive, archive. For someone researching the Hateful Eight 70mm release in 5 or 10 years, this forum will probably be the definitive source for research since most news articles have lots of incorrect information and are generally fluff.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-03-2016 04:13 PM
quote: Brad Miller
I never signed any NDA, but I have had inside knowledge of a decent amount of what has been going on over the last several months.
That applies to several of the contributors to this thread. This is a small world, and pretty much everyone left in the country who has done any serious large format film handling has either worked on the H8 shows, or knows people who have. I was referring to people who worked directly on the project, either for TWC or BLSI (or both).
quote: Brad Miller
I don't understand your competition comment. Film-Tech is not in competition with BLSI. I would have never accepted the contract to source and rebuild 100 systems.
Sorry - should have been clearer. I wasn't trying to suggest that F-T and BLSI were competing on this project specifically, but rather that you're both in the same market, with some significant overlap (e.g. both companies supply and install digital projection systems), and that this could be part of the reason why there haven't been any posts on this thread from the techs doing the refurbs and installations (especially given that this forum does not allow anonymous or pseudonymous posting).
It's obvious to anyone who has even the most basic knowledge of journalism and PR that the coverage of the technical aspects of the H8 release have been closely, carefully and professionally stage managed to achieve the maximum hype. The Indiewire article discussed above is evidence of that. Someone in their 40s or older telling the reporter, "I showed up for work, played the movie four times without incident and then went home again," doesn't make for very interesting reading. On the other hand, someone a generation younger whining that the job is "fucking hard," and cliches about raging against the dying of the light (someone who feels the need to quote a poem they probably learned in middle school aged 11 in that sort of context is probably not that long out of middle school...) make for good copy, however much they p!ss off the tiny fraction of that article's readership who recognize that sort of BS for what it is. And of course, the only real experts who have been interviewed in any depth in any of this coverage are Chapin, and a small number of rentaquote critics and academics who are never going to say anything controversial (or insightful, for that matter).
None of which is to deny that this release is a very significant and important achievement. It is to explain why the people who did it aren't discussing it on this site.
quote: Brad Miller
The reason people post more to facebook and so forth is because people want to play around on their phones all the time and it's quite simply...easy.
I'm sure you're right; just pointing out that, despite this material being essentially ephemeral, a lot of this sort of discussion has gone to those places, and that most of the people still using online forums such as this one are those who have been doing so since before "social media" sites existed.
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Mike Babb
Master Film Handler
Posts: 250
From: Norwich UK
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 01-03-2016 08:52 PM
Leo, I accepted and agreed with Brad on page 14 that we all wanted it to go well regardless of the predictions and tone of some of the statements. I didn't characterize anyone as anything, I merely asked the question and put forward a possibility in the form of a joke, in response to Joe's mockingly toned joke. Anyway if I need to crystalize my point, it is that a person new to this part of the industry, Adam Witmer for example, might read this thread and walk away with a bad impression, possibly never reading or contributing to film-tech again. If we take anything away from his article and the "brave" one that followed, it is that there are a bunch of people who are enthusiastically participating in this project. Going forward, if there are more 70mm releases, these people are likely to be on the short list for more projection work. It would be nice if they happened upon, or were directed to check out a community of supportive film handlers. Ultimately, I think we are that, as evidenced by some of the suggestions and information put out in the public domain via this forum, for all to see.
I do not know Adam, but he is part of a group of people from the North Carolina School of Arts. Matt Jones is their leader, I believe his title is associate curator, because it is an enormous film archive as well as being a film school. He is also the technical director of the Riverrun Film Festival, which is how I met him and a good number of his people. When it became obvious there would be a need for 70mm experienced film projectionists, I recommended BLS speak to Matt about his participation, and said he might be able to supply names of current and former students who might be interested as well. I did this for several reasons. First, they run film all the time, being both an archive and a teaching/classroom of film. They have 4 changeover houses including 70mm, and at least 3 brands of projectors which they run daily, and occasionally 70mm. They also participate in the archival process, so I know they have respect for film. The ones I have met are really great people. One of them is now a cinematographer in London, and flew home to be a projectionist, and also came home early to assist me in installations.
Maybe brave, which was written by someone in the article, is the wrong word. Every one of them that I have met in conjunction with this project is dedicated, and happy to be involved. I say we embrace them.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 01-03-2016 09:28 PM
Points taken, and I wouldn't mind betting that many of the individuals who were interviewed for that Indiewire article had their quotes selectively edited by a reporter who was trying to create a story that was first and foremost interesting and exciting for someone who knows nothing about projection to read, not an accurate impression of what the job in general or this project in particular involved. Both my parents were journalists, and in a previous life as a film archivist in the UK I was interviewed by journalists professionally a few times myself, and what I told them twisted and mangled into what they wanted to report.
As projectionists, our goal is to show up for work, screen the movie to the highest technical quality we can, without any incident or drama, and then go home again. If we do our job correctly, no-one should know that we exist. There is no story in that, just as there is no story in a plane taking off from London, flying to LA and landing safely. But if an engine blows up, terrorists shoot half the passengers and only an act of genius and/or heroism by the pilot saves the rest of them, then you've got your story. So in the case of this Indiewire piece, dramatic tales of 20-hours shifts in which prints are thrown off platters while doing a job that is "fucking hard" was what this writer was looking for. And furthermore it possibly helps to drum up an audience for the actual film, so I suppose we shouldn't complain. But, as others have pointed out above, I do resent my occupation being characterized in the media as chaotic, accident prone and done by the seat of our pants, even though it's understandable why the author of the Indiewire article felt the need to do that.
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Rick Cohen
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 102
From: Amherst, New York
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted 01-03-2016 10:58 PM
Regarding the timing of the Hateful Eight release, Harvey Weinstein stated this weekend in Variety, "If I’m writing a memo to myself, I would say ‘do not open against ‘Star Wars.’ Do not open against the biggest movie of all time.”
Duh. Financially, they are going to have problems getting their money back on this. The timing of the release couldn't have been worse for a three hour epic which cried to be seen on the biggest screens in the complex. They are entering the final week of the holiday play period, which should finish up close to $30 million domestic for its first two weeks in release. The Revenant, another epic western and probably a better movie than Hateful Eight, goes into it's wide release beginning January 8 on roughly 3,000 screens.
With a reported budget of $62 million, combined with P & A costs of maybe $50 million, Hateful Eight will need to gross at least $200 million worldwide just to break even, after the exhibitors take out their split of the tickets revenue. Having a screener leak all over the internet isn't helping matters.
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