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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-10-2007 02:55 PM

Mark, after doing some side by side comparisons, I have found that BluRay is noticeably a better format. This is regardless of the player you are using (but still using the same feature disc). As such I am not against "high definition dvds", I am against HD-DVD because it's compression is much more noticeable than BluRays.

Your comparison of booth equipment is ridiculous. In this example it is the FORMAT of HD-DVD that sucks. I suggest you pay a little closer attention to the images you are so happy with coming from your HD-DVD player and compare them to the same movie on BluRay, which is noticeably superior. Perhaps then you can see why you got suckered into the HD-DVD camp due to that silly sale.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 11-10-2007 03:17 PM

I'm with Brad on buying two single format machines. I guess I'll be wasting the 13 seconds it takes to unplug one player and plug in the other from the back of my receiver if I run out of inputs.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-10-2007 03:23 PM

Thats funny Brad... you seem to be in your own little this is better club there. If you read all the disk reviewers reviews over at say Digital Bits you'll see that there is little to no difference between the vuisuals of the two formats, in fact many disk reviewers are using some of the best projectors/flat screens available to look at the disks, probably far better gear than anyone on this site has. But I bet that you probably have a good explanation for what they see too. Even if it were a worse format the player still represents a better deal than buying an equivelent DVD only player.

Mark

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-10-2007 05:20 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
None of the schemes used with the single DSP could compare to having seperate dedicated D to A decoders

Should I get a computer that is designed specifically to decode JPEG images and another that is built for GIFs?

It's all in the software routines. A single chip can easily do what multiple chips can just as well. There is absolutely no technical reason why it can't.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-10-2007 06:32 PM

Mark, nobody here is saying to buy a regular DVD player instead of HD-DVD or BluRay. Where are you getting this "debate" from?

Take your HD-DVD and put it up against a BluRay on a large monitor (or screen) and get close to it if you can't tell the difference. HD-DVD has a more video-like image to my eyes and compression is more noticeable.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-10-2007 08:27 PM

I will do that on Monday with a BARCO DP-100!! I don't expect to see much if any noteworthy difference. If there were alot of difference the folks doing the reviews would be stating in their reviews to buy one disk over the other when its a dual release.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 11-10-2007 09:06 PM

Well now it all makes sense. You have been listening to video dorks all this time rather than looking with your own eyes! I have full confidence that as of Monday you will have seen the difference and will return to this thread to report that BluRay DOES indeed have the better picture.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-10-2007 11:15 PM

quote: Brad Miller
Being that the dual players are roughly double the cost of a single player, I personally would rather purchase a single format player of HD-DVD and a single format player of BluRay.

Products like LG's "Super-Blu" player do carry a hefty price premium. Even Samsung's UP-5000 player won't be cheap (at least it doesn't cost over $1000). But dual format players compatible with both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs won't cost double two standalone players for very long at all.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Thats funny Brad... you seem to be in your own little this is better club there. If you read all the disk reviewers reviews over at say Digital Bits you'll see that there is little to no difference between the vuisuals of the two formats, in fact many disk reviewers are using some of the best projectors/flat screens available to look at the disks, probably far better gear than anyone on this site has.

One other thing the Digital Bits website says loud and clear: they prefer Blu-Ray.

quote: Joe Redifer
It's all in the software routines. A single chip can easily do what multiple chips can just as well. There is absolutely no technical reason why it can't.

Agreed.

I'm just waiting for someone to bring up that damned "jitter" argument again. All of the data being transmitted in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is in packeted form. It shouldn't matter what lasers or DSPs are picking up the data. If it doesn't read the data correctly and transmit it correctly the audio or video just isn't going to play correctly.

If we had to have all sorts of high end separate components just to be able to do anything in audio-video playback then other things like many tasks done with personal computers would be impossible.

The fundamental problem with HD-DVD is their dual layer disc has only 30GB of data capacity. A dual layer Blu-Ray disc has 50GB. You don't need such severe levels of compression on the audio/video data with Blu-Ray. And you have more room for things like extras.

Really nice embarrassment for Paramount on that Jack Ryan HD box set btw. They basically put together something originally designed for Blu-Ray release, including all the printed materials for the box. But then they sold out to Microsoft and went HD-DVD. Someone forgot they no longer had any room for extras with the HD-DVD discs.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 11-11-2007 12:53 AM

I was on the fence for a long time on what format to buy. I guess the picture quality is close enough for me not to dismiss one format simply for that. I may be doing this the stupid way, but I am looking at what movies I want to own and what format provides them. As of now, Blu-Ray has the movies I want, so I'm going with the Samsung BD-P1400. I'm sure I'll be happy with it.

Anyone have any input on the new 120Hz LCD TV'S? Its a very nice, very clear image, but it just doesn't look like film to me. The video quality looks more like a TV sitcom or some other "live" performance.

**Best Buy put the BD-P1400 on sale for $399 (still with 5 free mail in movies and 2 that you can pick in store...7 total), for the reviews that this player is getting, and the features it has, it seems like a great deal!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 11-11-2007 02:21 AM

quote: Frank Dubrois
Anyone have any input on the new 120Hz LCD TV'S? Its a very nice, very clear image, but it just doesn't look like film to me. The video quality looks more like a TV sitcom or some other "live" performance.

Did they have a 120 frames-per-second source? Otherwise it should just look very steady (as opposed to strobey/flickery). 120Hz should be better than 60Hz for 24fps progressive HD material unless they're trying to interpolate extra frames or some other BS. If they had something running at 120 fps, then no, it will not look like film but instead like reality.

By the way, what runs at 120 frames per second? Nothing that I know of except maybe the Samsung demo hardware which is hooked up to the TV.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-11-2007 04:50 AM

I say, Blu-Ray into THIS baby:

ProjectionDesign M80 3-chip DLP wins key CEDIA award!

ProjectionDesign high-end projector, the M80, is recognized as one of those products in the display industry that lead the herd in terms of technology and presentation.

Indeed, the projectionDesign M80 is a high-end three-chip DLP boasting 1080p native resolution. Rated at up to 8,000 lumens, this light canon is available with a choice of five optional lenses.

Other key features include 10-bit video processor, RealColor color management suite and a range of high quality optics for the maximum picture quality.

ProjectionDesign has also innovated with the design of the projector itself – it has placed the digital micromirror devices or DMDs at the top of the unit. This not only makes the M80 more compact, but helps with servicing and with attaching different color filters too.

The projectionDesign is due for UK release in Q1 – 2008.

Clicky here for the article -- CineNow.com

I mean, is this what it's finally come down to....getting Home Theatre to look as good as D-Cinema? Might as well sell the 35mm collection and start replacing all titles with Blu-Ray discs. (I can't believe those words came out of my mouth). At the very least, it certainly will cut down on storage space.

This sure has got to come close to "who needs better than this" to mimic what you'll see going to DCinema. And look ma, no freakin spinning wheels! Three chips, just like the big boys.

Only question is, will I have to sell my first born?

BTW, who is ProjectionDesign? Anyone ever hear of them?

That site is just chocked full of happening stuff....like TI doing 3D with DLP projection TVs. Imagine that....all that hoopla about how 3D in theatres was going to be the stop-gap item because they were NEVER going to be able to duplicate that at home. And THAT's how the digevangelists hawked it to the suits at Regal and Carmike and the rest of them. Well, so much for THAT bubble...seems TI just couldn't wait to burst it, even before the 3D systems were barely warmed up.

THIS was never supposed to happen (even tho I predicted it would):

Texas Instrument launches 3D TV!

On the IFA show in Berlin, Texas instruments has introduced an enhancement to its DLP projection technology that enables TV sets to display 3D images. Mitsubishi and Samsung are among the first OEMs to implement the technology in their products, TI said.

The technology shown adopts Texas Instruments’ DLP Cinema technology to living-room dimensions. Basically, it incorporates a rear projection TV modified to process HD material such as HDTV, HD-DVD or Blu-ray as source. However, the material has to be produced accordingly, and viewers have to use specific shutter goggles.

The DLP 3D HDTV technology supplies a 60Hz frame rate signal to each eye; internally the device works with a 120Hz frame rate. The 3-D stereoscopic video content is fed to the TV set equipped with the 3-D display via HDMI or DVI port. Left and right stereo images are filtered independently and then sampled in an offset grid pattern. In the display, the resulting views are combined again and appear as spacial image to the viewer.

Clicky here for the article on CineNow.com

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 11-11-2007 05:54 AM

quote: Frank Angel
and viewers have to use specific shutter goggles.

Boo! Cheap! Eye latency! [puke]

Make the images polarized and on the screen at the same time. This shouldn't be too hard with BluRay's dual video stream capabilities.

Do THAT, Texas Instruments. Then you'd be accomplishing something.

Shutter glasses have been done.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-11-2007 06:35 AM

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Make the images polarized and on the screen at the same time. This shouldn't be too hard with BluRay's dual video stream capabilities.

Mark, give me two of those ProjectionDesign M80 projectors and there ya go -- passive polarized glasses!

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 11-11-2007 08:59 AM

You got it, Frank. You'd also need a special player with two separate video outputs for the two synchronized video streams. It may be expensive, but it shouldn't be that difficult to do. And the price will come down over time.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-11-2007 11:40 AM

quote: Joe Redifer
By the way, what runs at 120 frames per second? Nothing that I know of except maybe the Samsung demo hardware which is hooked up to the TV.

Computer-based inputs could potentially run near those frame rates or even better. My old Viewsonic 21" CRT monitor could do 1800 X 1440 at 91Hz. I'm not sure about gaming consoles. This is one reason why I think electronics companies should be paying more attention to how their TV monitors work when connected to auxiliary sources like external monitor inputs from computers.

Large HDTV screens are going to be doing more duties than just playing movies and showing TV signals.

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