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Author
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Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?
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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-05-2008 01:36 AM
I have no problems what so ever with my PS3 overheating. I've had it on for 24 hours straight and it wasn't even hot to the touch. I don't have any external coolers or fans on it, just the way it came out of the box.
Now back to Blue-Ray HD war...another blow to the HD community has been struck.
Comingsoon.net
quote:
The HD DVD Promotion Group has made two announcements following Warner Bros.' decision to go Blu-ray Disc exclusive for High Definition titles (and New Line is going Blu-ray only as well with WB):
The companies of the HD DVD Promotion Group today issued a statement in response to the decision by Warner Home Video to exclusively back the Blu-ray format:
"While Warner's decision is a setback for HD DVD, the consumer has benefited from HD DVD's commitment to quality and affordability -- a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format. We believe widespread adoption of a next generation format will ultimately be determined by the consumer."
If you ask us, the HD DVD camp is reaching here. We don't think they'll be able to recover from losing Warner Bros. Entertainment as well. With Blu-ray Disc now gaining a 70% share of the market compared to HD DVD's 30%, we wouldn't be surprised if announcements from Paramount/DreamWorks and Universal (the only two studios on HD DVD's side) will come sometime down the road saying that they will either go Blu-ray exclusive or release in both formats.
The HD DVD Promotion Group was planning a big press conference on sunday at the Consumer Electronics Association (CES) in Las Vegas, but that has been cancelled now:
Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD's commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.
We'll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD.
Sorry to say this but its not looking good for HD, two more major studies backing Blu-Ray.
(EDIT) See Mark beat me to this, but oh well worth a note.
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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 01-05-2008 11:58 AM
I doubt that we will see a three layer HD-DVD. There are some huge technical problems with putting that third layer and it's semi reflective layer into the disc, and still being able to get enough light through the (now) two semi reflective layers, read the back layer, then back though the two semi reflective layers again. The light that you are trying to read will also have competition from unmodulated light bouncing back from the semi reflective layers as well. I would think that to make this work will require a new laser, and different optics. This would make it incompatible with current players. I also think that Blu-ray's 4 layer clame, was just to poke fun at HD-DVD.
DVDs came out two layer years ago, so why didn't the new HD formats come out with three or more layers? Maybe because no one can figure out how to make this work.
One thing that says that this three layer thing is total BS, is that HD-DVDs math is wrong! 15G X 3layers = 45G, NOT 51G. Trying to squeeze that much more data into a "new" format is not going to happen.
I think this whole three layer thing is just marketing BS.
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Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-05-2008 01:21 PM
Of course Blu Ray is backwards compatible with SD dvds, it has an upscaling feature as well (which I'm sure HD dvd has). As with many here, I dont really care about menus, I just want to watch the movie and check out the extras afterwards. It's nice to see WB is on the ball with authoring in that aspect, hopefully other studios will follow. As for less expensive, 1080p HD dvd players are about $299 if I recall correctly, which is about the same as some Blu Ray plays. 1080i HD dvd players are under $200. Now I haven't used an HD dvd player yet so Ican't comment on it's user friendliness, but from what I've seen so far, the Blu Ray isn't any different from an SD DVD player at all. When the menu pops up on Casino Royale, I press the enter button when the bar is on Play, and the movie starts. I dont see how it can get any easier than that (other than WB discs that is).
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-05-2008 01:39 PM
quote: Bruce Hansen
There are some huge technical problems with putting that third layer and it's semi reflective layer into the disc, and still being able to get enough light through the (now) two semi reflective layers, read the back layer, then back though the two semi reflective layers again.
Not to mention the issue that few if any existing HD-DVD players would even be able to play such triple layer discs at all.
quote: Bruce Hansen
DVDs came out two layer years ago, so why didn't the new HD formats come out with three or more layers? Maybe because no one can figure out how to make this work.
There's constantly all sorts of claims coming from one company or another that they've mastered some new method to put as many as 10 data layers into an optical disc.
Getting it to work in a laboratory (often only on paper in theory) and getting it to work in a mass disc replication factory are two very different things.
All of the first DVD-V discs were single layer, and if they had two data layers they were "flipper" discs. I think the first release of Terminator 2 on DVD was the first dual layer DVD-V disc (not the Ultimate Edition DVD or Extreme DVD version). I also think that was early 1999, a good 18 months after DVD was introduced. The first DVD players couldn't read dual layer discs and had no DTS Output either. Many early players had all sorts of strange technical problems. IMHO, DVD players didn't reach "maturity" until 2000.
Blu-Ray has pretty done the same thing with both its discs and players. After nearly 2 years Blu-Ray players are finally catching up to certain hardware features in HD-DVD players. Most Blu-Ray movies are now dual layer and encoded in AVC.
quote: Ron Funderburg
Does Blue Ray play the old DVD's or it is a stand alone their stuff or no stuff piece of equipment?
Yes. Blu-Ray players can play standard DVD movies too. Aside from certain technical differences in the players and more significant differences in optical disc design, Blu-Ray players can play back all the audio and video compression formats in the HD-DVD spec. VC-1 is more popular on HD-DVD, but some Blu-Ray discs are encoded in VC-1 as well. Warner Bros' Blu-Ray version of Bladerunner has VC-1 video.
I think the current hardware issues with Blu-Ray players will sort out themselves, especially with lots of different electronics manufacturers making them. Even Toshiba will eventually have to start making Blu-Ray players, just like Sony had to start making VHS decks in the 1980s.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 01-05-2008 06:24 PM
I admit to being a little stunned over the Warner Bros. announcement. From the sounds of it, it was an 11th hour decision on Warner's part when they tried to get Fox to come over to HD DVD exclusive with them, and Fox bailed out.
If not for a couple of turns in the negotiations (including a reported $500 million in "considerations" from the BDA), the announcement yesterday would have been very different. No doubt that was what the HD DVD promotional group had in mind when they scheduled their 2-hour press event for Sunday night. What a coup that would have been to have gotten not only Warner as an exclusive but Fox as well!
If you want to read more of my comments about it, please feel free to read this. (I didn't want to bore everyone here with all of my comments, but I'll gladly quote them to adhere to the rules)
While not reaching the heights of fanboys on each side of the format war, I believed in HD DVD's ability to succeed in the market. Not because of better specs, because Blu-ray looks better on paper in every regard. Not because of better studio support, because it was pretty much a tie until yesterday.
I liked HD DVD because it was able to deliver on its promises now. That is something that Blu-ray continues to fail to do.
I am hoping that CES will produce news about a standalone player (non-game system) that will deliver Profile 1.1 out of the box, be firmware upgradeable to Profile 2.0 before fall when Finding Nemo and Sleeping Beauty are released, and for less than $300 street price. And lastly, it needs to be rock-solid reliable.
From the Disney press release:
quote:
Sleeping Beauty will be WDSHE’s first Platinum Edition Blu-ray Disc and will feature a Virtual Castle, utilizing the new BD-Live technology, as well as the interactive game Maleficent’s Challenge which puts viewers face-to-face with one of Disney’s greatest villains. Sleeping Beauty Blu-ray Disc will also feature an all-new enhanced home theater mix in 7.1 surround sound.
Disney/Pixar’s Finding Nemo Blu-ray Disc will debut the first Cine-Explore featuring full motion picture-in-picture (BonusView). This interactive visual commentary with director Andrew Stanton, co-writer Bob Peterson and co-director Lee Unkrich allows the viewer to dive deeper into the making of Finding Nemo without ever leaving the film. For kids and families, there is the all-new BD-Java enabled learning mode “Mr. Ray’s Ed-venture.” Hosted by Dory, Marlin and of course Mr. Ray, viewers will learn all about sea life and have the opportunity to earn stickers for their virtual sticker book by answering “quizlettes” while watching the movie. Viewers can also go to their sticker book at any time and create their own scene. Finding Nemo will also feature an all-new enhanced home theater mix in 7.1 surround sound.
I almost pulled the trigger on an open-box Playstation 3 this week because the price was good (for a PS3), and the PS3 is the only Blu-ray player that delivers on almost all of those needs (except the price). It's wrong that a game system that does much more than play Blu-ray movies is the best option when all I want to do is play Blu-ray movies.
I don't need a game system; my last videogame system was an Atari 2600. I'd much rather be able to control my Blu-ray movie using my universal remote than know that I can frag a bunch of 13-year-olds playing some shoot-em-up game that costs $50 a pop.
I don't believe that there are any massive differences between Blu-ray and HD DVD when it comes to just watching a movie. Even when it comes to doing the menus and doing the interactivity with PiP and such, both platforms are capable of achieving the same end result.
It's possible (I don't know first-hand) that Blu-ray will be able to achieve even more than we have seen so far and can imagine at this point because of the Java-based foundation of its interactivity. The flip-side is that the Java Virtual Machine is most likely responsible for the long load times we're seeing on some Blu-ray players. The PS3 is basically a supercomputer in small box, so it doesn't have the load time issues (again, from what I understand).
Blu-ray has been handicapped by the hardware available to play the movies. Except for the PS3, the other players are underpowered, underspec'd, and in some cases, unreliable (Samsung 1400). Now with 2.4 million Blu-ray players able to play Profile 1.1 content that is being released this month, people will be able to see what those studios are able to do with the extra functionality. Disney has already announced that they are going to use Profile 2.0 functionality.
Disney was a big proponent of the HDi interactivity layer in HD DVD, as they worked with Microsoft to develop it. I think that Disney is very interested in taking advantage of the advanced features of the format, not just in playing a movie in high definition.
If anything, getting rid of the competition is going to show how poorly equipped Blu-ray is to take on the real competition, which is standard definition DVD. People will hopefully stop bickering about the differences between the two HD formats and start to turn a critical eye to the one format that needs to reach more of the masses in order to succeed.
How many Blu-ray manufacturers are going to step up to the plate and provide players up to the task? I hope at least one or two, but I fear that there will be none.
I'll end with the comments that ended my Journal post that I linked to:
quote:
The Challenge for Blu-ray Manufacturers
We need a Blu-ray player that has Profile 1.1 features now and priced at under $300. Ideally, that player should have an ethernet connection for firmware updates and be upgradeable to Profile 2.0 standards when the discs that have been announced are released.
Sell us something other than a game system that represents a good value and that has a chance at being enhanced in the future.
The Challenge for Blu-ray Studios
It's all about the movies. All new releases must be day-and-date with the DVD releases. Warner needs to do right by consumers by releasing all of its HD DVD-only catalog titles onto Blu-ray.
All studios need to pull out some big guns to get this format going. That means The Lord of the Rings Trilogy -- we know the encoding has been done and it has to be close to being ready. That means the Toy Story movies. Every studio needs to go through its library of Oscar-winning and top box office movies and get going.
Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal: it's time to see the light and serve your customers. Let's rip the bandage off quickly and get it over with.
If you want this new HD format to succeed, prove it. Show me and other consumers that it's worth buying into. You're going to have to work harder to earn our money.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-05-2008 07:54 PM
quote: Scott Jentsch
I admit to being a little stunned over the Warner Bros. announcement. From the sounds of it, it was an 11th hour decision on Warner's part when they tried to get Fox to come over to HD DVD exclusive with them, and Fox bailed out.
Do you have some sources for that piece of news? EDIT: The Digital Bits made mention today of deals the HD-DVD promotional group was waving in front of both WB and Fox.
This is the first I've heard of any possibility Fox may have considered defecting to the HD-DVD format. The WB Blu-Ray rumor had been buzzing for weeks due to an internal leak from the studio. So it seems WB's decision to go Blu-Ray was not really an 11th hour decision after all.
I think WB just waited until the time was best to make its Blu-Ray announcement, a couple days ahead of the start of Winter CES. It allowed the news media to jump on the story. I saw a report on CNN today about Warner's decision to go Blu. The news will help generate even more buzz about Winter CES and save the convention from being just another lackluster installment.
The Friday news release also gave Warner Bros. enough time to back out of that HD-DVD promotional event. It would have seemed very strange for WB to take part in that event only to defect to Blu-Ray a few days or weeks later. It was better for WB to just get the announcement over with and neutralize the controversy.
Certain folks in the HD-DVD are spinning things hard today, claiming that WB was given $500 million to go Blu-Ray exclusive. They're hoping WB gets as much heat as Paramount/Dreamworks did for taking a big check to go HD-DVD exclusive. Except there's a huge difference. WB is going to release all the planned HD-DVD titles they have, which runs through May. Paramount/Dreamworks immediately pulled all their Blu-Ray content, canceled BD movies that had already been pressed like the BD version of the Jack Ryan box set -and then goofed up on the HD-DVD version! No extras! Yet there's all that stuff about extras on the packaging! Durp.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote: Scott Jentsch
I liked HD DVD because it was able to deliver on its promises now. That is something that Blu-ray continues to fail to do.
Picture in picture capability and LAN ports built into the players may be a big deal to some, but most won't care much about it. They mainly just want to watch the movie.
I think HD-DVD has been coming up short compared to Blu-Ray in regards to the main part of the product: the audio/video quality of the movie itself. A 50GB BD can fit better quality video streams, better quality audio tracks and still have more room left over for extras. HD-DVD has a tough time fitting things like LPCM 5.1 audio or next gen Dolby True-HD or DTS-HD Master audio tracks. Most Blu-Ray movies have some sort of high bit rate surround track.
quote: Scott Jentsch
How many Blu-ray manufacturers are going to step up to the plate and provide players up to the task? I hope at least one or two, but I fear that there will be none.
Blu-Ray does have a clear advantage of numerous electronics companies manufacturing Blu-Ray players. Competition between those companies and the factor of the format war being all but finished will force those companies to work harder on bringing players to market that comply with Profile 2.0, work better/faster and even incorporate other features to differentiate themselves from their competition.
Playstation 3 reportedly can be updated to Profile 2.0 capability, in addition to the pending Profile 1.1 update.
Obviously it will be critical for other manufacturers to flush out old Profile 1.0 players and improve their product lines. I am expecting to see a good number of new Blu-Ray player product announcements from various companies during Winter CES.
As to blockbuster quality releases on Blu-Ray, that's all going to be up to the discretion of the movie studios. More big catalog titles are on the way. For instance, Fox is releasing Independence Day on Blu-Ray in March.
With the format situation simplified it will be possible for studios like New Line to bring movies like the LOTR trilogy onto Blu-Ray faster. New Line also declared itself to be Blu-Ray exclusive along with Warner Bros. With them not having to cram content into a 30GB window to stay compatible with HD-DVD they'll be able to create better versions of those movies.
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