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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray? (Page 56)

 
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Author Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?
Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-07-2008 01:54 PM      Profile for Mike Heenan   Email Mike Heenan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yawn... at least the author had the courtesy to put in the caveats to make it balanced. What I dont get is, if the author claims that the majority of folks wont know how to burn an ISO disc to upgrade firmware, then likely you'd assume those are the same folks who wouldn't know how to connect their player to an ethernet cable to upgrade.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-07-2008 02:52 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know about other Blu-Ray players, but updating the PS3 is very easy. You can either click the "System Update" icon in the PS3 menu. Or you can download the firmware onto a flash card and install it that way.

quote: C-Net Article
Can you see the difference between standard DVD and Blu-ray? Yes--but it may not be as noticeable as you would think. Like all high-definition material, Blu-ray discs look their most-impressive at bigger screen sizes, where DVD can sometimes start to look a bit soft.
Quality differences between 1080p/24 Blu-Ray and standard 480p DVD can be very significant -even when compared to the same movie on DVD upconverted in the same BD player to 1080p. The first three movies I bought on Blu-Ray (Ratatouille, Casino Royale and Bladerunner) all look much sharper and boldly colorful than their DVD counterparts. The regular DVDs look good. But the Blu-Ray versions look a LOT better. BTW, they also sound better too.

Native 1080p video has six times the native pixel count as 480p DVD.

Upconversion of 480p DVD material for 1080p display can look decent, but the end result isn't very sharp. The resulting picture is fairly soft and lacking certain detail. Worse yet, if the DVD has any image problems (such as noticeable edge halos, mosquito noise, etc.) those problems may be exaggerated when upconverted to 1080p display.

Some older movies may not look quite as sharp, especially if their archival elements are not in good shape or are a couple or more generations removed from the original negative. I thought Full Metal Jacket looked a little soft in its 2nd Blu-Ray version. But it's still a hell of a lot better looking than the DVD.

quote: C-Net Article
So there you have it: there's absolutely no compelling reason to dive into Blu-ray, at least for the next few months.
Well, that's the attitude I had last week while getting ready to buy my new TV. I was going to wait until summer or fall before buying a Blu-Ray player.

The problem is I got seduced by the image quality of 1080p/24 and just couldn't resist bringing home a PS3 and some Blu-Ray movies along with that new TV.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 02-07-2008 03:08 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is your PS3 outputting 24p to your TV, Bobby? How does that look with each frame flashed 5 times? I imagine it is pretty nice.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-07-2008 04:23 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, my PS3 is sending 24p to my TV since I have the two devices connected directly via HDMI. The TV even lists "1080p/24" on screen when you do something like switch between video sources or use PIP.

The 1080p/24 does look very nice. It evokes the appearance of really good film projection and has that same rock-steady feel of D-Cinema.

IMHO, any electronics store selling HDTVs capable of true 1080p/24 display are screwing themselves if they don't have Blu-Ray movies playing on those demo monitors.

Any of the Motion Enhancer modes screw up the 24p appearance. So it is best to leave that feature turned "off" while watching Blu-Ray movies. It seems better suited to video-based TV broadcasts.

Late Edit:

Forgot to mention this also: I think the picture also looks better with Noise Reduction turned "off." The video material on Blu-Ray usually looks great enough without any pixel shifting and smearing stuff like that running. Makes for a more naturally sharp and film-like image.

[ 02-07-2008, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 02-07-2008 04:50 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Got this from imdb.com yesterday:

People Happy With DVD, Not Likely To Switch to Hi-Def, Says Study

Relatively few consumers are planning to make the transition from DVDs to high-definition HD DVD or Blu-ray, according to a survey by NPD Group. The researchers said that among owners of HDTV sets, seven out of 10 say they see no need to purchase high-definition players, maintaining that they are satisfied with the quality of their current players. "one of the main challenges for the next-generation" format, NPD Group senior entertainment industry analyst Russ Crupnick told Bloomberg News, "is you have a product out there that is pretty darn good in consumers' eyes."

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-07-2008 05:01 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike reminds me of an article way back in the 90's that DVD's wouldn't be taking the place of Video tape anytime in the near future. I guess it depends on the definition of "near future"! I wouldn't say that DVD is bad it is very good in fact wonderful but eventually watching all that high def TV the DVD will begin to not look as good. It could be 8 to 10 years off but sooner or later it most likely will happen.

2 years ago Adobe Premier Pro could edit high definition it could even out put high def in files; however, Adobe Encore had no means to write it as high definition to disk to a usable disk even if you had a high def recorder. Now you can do blu-ray and high def out of Encore provided your DVD writer can handle it!

The world changes we move on some move though the world faster than others. It all is just in the mix!

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-07-2008 05:40 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As for "upconverting" a DVD to 1080p, you cannot make something out of nothing. If the information is not there to begin with (which it isn't), you can't just make it up. You cannot make a DVD look like a BluRay.

As for the above article, sounds like a lot of the same marketing BS HDDVD has been trying to pass off on the public for some time now, or just a sore loser.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-07-2008 05:54 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The article that Mike quotes is probable right there isn't a big rush to either blu-ray or HD DVD. It took DVD years to get a big hold on the market and several more years to signal the death toll for VHS. People don't change what is working just because there is something different out there.

I disagree with you Bruce up convert is visible better on a big screen tv than running as just a DVD. No not HD or Blu-ray quality (HD or Blu-ray they are the same specs Blu-ray is a High Def product just a different procedure to get there) but better than it was as just DVD. It is true you can't make silk purse out of cows ear but you can make a leather one!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-07-2008 07:04 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately this is another one of those areas where people quite wrongly have that "digital" buzzword bouncing around in their heads fooling them into believing they can do all sorts of flexible crap with it.

I see it all the time in my day job, like people bringing in some dopey low-rez JPEG image off their MySpace page or some shit and expecting it to look good up-rezzed on a great big banner. But they want it anyway. And they learn the truth when the results look all soft and blotchy.

The same holds true with trying to enlarge a highly compressed MPEG-2 video image to 600% of its original size. The enlargement is going to look only so good. It certainly will not equal the detail in something natively in 1080p.

As to the "people don't want Blu-Ray" article, I say those 7 out of 10 people just aren't familiar with how good it looks. Most probably have smaller SD-quality televisions.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 02-07-2008 07:11 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
People who purchase shiny-new HDTVs are gonna damn well want something to take advantage of it. Sure, cable/dish/OTA/whatever looks pretty nice, but then they'll realize how ass-tastic their movies look in comparison. Then they will take a diarrhea dump on their DVD collection and go out and buy Blu-Ray.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
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 - posted 02-07-2008 07:56 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the HD content over the air and the HD off the dish will eventually show them that they want to upgrade! Notice I am saying want to after all TV, Movies, Blu-ray is in the want realm not the need realm.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 02-07-2008 09:25 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
To make matters worse, many early Blu-ray players can't update via Ethernet, so you'll need to burn a CD to update the player.
I don't think there are many early players. Maybe 3?

Also, Samsung came out with a firmware update which can be updated over ethernet just two days ago. Linky link (Remember you'll have to go back into settings and put everything back the way it needs to be after the firmware update).

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 02-08-2008 10:32 AM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While the article doesn't necessarily say anything that many haven't said before, it underscores the challenge faced by Blu-ray if it is really going to be become successful. The real competitor was not HD DVD, it is DVD, and it's bringing a knife to a gunfight.

The conclusion that the PS3 is the only Blu-ray player worth buying right now is on target with my feelings. If the rest of the crop of players were truly cheap (no, $300 is not cheap, it's just inexpensive in the realm of Blu-ray players), then I would say with some reservation that they would be worth buying.

However, just because studios are not taking advantage of the online connectivity and secondary video decoders, it doesn't mean that they won't in the near future. Each title should raise the bar for the next, and the disc authors will get better at leveraging the features, especially as the tools they use make such things easier to accomplish. Buying a Profile 1.0 player is a bad purchase at any price above $150, IMHO.

The studios do need to step up the release schedules, though. Now that the excuse that there were two formats causing confusion is pretty much over, I want to see some aggressive release schedules. For all their supposed impact on the format war, Warner and its decision last month has yet to make any kind of real impact on the landscape. Which studios have announced more numerous releases than in the past as a result of the shift in the format war? None that I'm aware of.

In regards to people not being able to tell the difference between DVD and HD DVD/Blu-ray, it's all a matter of demonstrating the difference and showing people what a good quality picture can look like. When they don't know any different, they are happy with what they have. It reminds me of the exchange in The American President:
quote:
Lewis Rothschild: They don't have a choice! Bob Rumson is the only one doing the talking! People want leadership, Mr. President, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.

President Andrew Shepherd: Lewis, we've had presidents who were beloved, who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand because they don't know the difference.

People are happy with DVD because they don't know the difference. Anyone who says that upconverted DVDs are good enough either aren't discerning enough to care (which is OK), or they are deluding themselves because of some other reason (can't afford the technology, feel intimidated by something new they may not understand, etc.).

Unfortunately, places like Best Buy aren't equipped with the aptitude to educate people about the products they are trying to sell to them. Most of them are just glorified storefronts for mail order businesses because they often have less informed employees than the web pages representing the same products.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-08-2008 01:54 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think another factor which contributes to the "DVD/480p is good enough" attitude is how mainstream electronics stores trip over the steps on selling HD the right way.

Most electronics stores have some so/so quality HD feed piped into all their TV sets on the floor. You rarely see any of the really high end TV sets fed a really great quality image from a Blu-Ray disc or even an HD-DVD disc.

Take the local Sears store here in Lawton. They have the 46" version of the Sony Bravia XBR4 TV I purchased (for some odd reason they don't carry the 52" version I bought). The 46" model they have on the sales floor is showing a snowy NTSC-quality version of Sears' promo video. It looks like shit! That creates a very bad first impression on customers and would likely drive them away from purchasing what is otherwise a very nice TV. They said they couldn't "tune in" the HD signal. Hook a #@%&ing Blu-Ray player up to it!

I bought my Sony 52" XBR4 TV after doing a lot of "homework" comparing lots of different TV models at various price points. What I bought is not the best of the best, but IMHO it delivered the most bang for the bucks I was willing to spend. I would not have bought this TV if my only impression of that model line was from what I saw at that Sears location.

Unfortunately, most people are just going to buy TVs based on how they look on the sales floor.

Most electronics stores do not do nearly enough to show off HD movie content from HD movie disc formats. A well authored Blu-Ray disc is going to look significantly better than any HD cable broadcast or any HD sales promo feed.

[ 02-09-2008, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-08-2008 01:55 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Jentsch
However, just because studios are not taking advantage of the online connectivity and secondary video decoders, it doesn't mean that they won't in the near future.
What would be the advantage in any of this? I'd like to buy a player that specifically CAN'T have these retarded and annoying "extra features" that do nothing to make a bad movie good. All profile 1 players should still be able to play the movie itself. Absolutely nothing else matters. You seem to be interested mainly in the special features. That is truly sad. That's like not buying Photoshop because you can't have an IM live chat on your computer with someone while working.

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