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Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) Kevin Orman Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Sompting, Lancing, UK Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-27-2005 07:27 AM                     Tracy, if it looks okay on-screen and there is no danger of the sprocket damage causing any further foul-ups then don't cut anything. It's strong stuff that Polyester! For me, cutting anything out is always an absolute last resort and I have been amazed at how many films with horribly mutilated edges do in fact run okay with little or no visible on-screen effects.  |  IP: Logged Tracy Bellar Film Handler Posts: 72 From: Sciotoville, Oh. Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-27-2005 04:15 PM                        I'm just making sure it isn't going to make more damage. But, The print will need to be labled as damaged when it leaves so it isn't someone elses headache. The reel should be replaced. Our owners policies should come back to bite him in the Ass. He should have to pay for the replaced reel. He will play dumb if ever comfronted about it and deny our theater damaged the print. But, I will leave a note in the cans when it leaves.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-27-2005 08:21 PM                        When the film runs off a sprocket such that the teeth "bite" into part of the image, it is called "roping". From your description, the Dolby Digital track has likely been damaged by the tooth indentations. Damage like this is easily tracked back to your theatre if the next theatre even does a cursory inspection. Telling the distributor and requesting a replacement reel is the "right" thing to do.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Orman Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Sompting, Lancing, UK Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-28-2005 01:02 PM                     John, absolutely agree with you that distributor must be informed but if there is no absolute necessity to cut anything for it to run okay then at least they can run without any jumps for the time being. We have often informed distributors when we have received damaged prints (we do not damage them by the way!) but I have become a little hesitant to do this unless the damage is really serious. Why? Well it has become obvious to us that distributors generally are NOT interested in who or how or when something was damaged and that in 99% of cases most projectionists are too lazy to report damage. This would mean that if we continually reported damage we may forever be associated with 'film damage'. We received a print a while back which had all of the SDDS track breaking-up and flaking off into the picture area. The black 'snow-storm' effect was terrible - beyond what we could tolerate. I traced the print back to the previous cinema who said that they had 'that problem' all the time and pleaded with me to complain to the distributors or anybody who would listen as faulty/worn equipment was to blame and their company were not interested. (having spoken to the tech responsible for servicing it is more likely down to operator error) I did complain and repeated what was said. The action taken by the distributor was to replace our print but as far as I know, as usual, no action was taken against the people causing the damage therefore there is no incentive for them to change their sloppy practices. Another common problem we come across is that known damage is often not 'reported' as such but somebody just puts a label on the film can and expects the handlers at the depot to notice. If we have run a print that is damaged, we report it direct to the distributor and then label every film can and the outside of the box. Another time we received a print of 'Amelie' WITH a note from previous cinema explaining that the subtitles 'disappeared' for a few minutes on a certain part! Indeed they did! This was for an arts festival screening and we were able to forewarn the audience of the 'fault' - still did not look too professional in my view. Why the print was not withdrawn before is a mystery but probably relates to the mis-reporting as above.  |  IP: Logged Tracy Bellar Film Handler Posts: 72 From: Sciotoville, Oh. Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-29-2005 02:14 AM                        I agree 100%. The distributer needs to know. But, I know the owner of our chain. He won't do it. The dolby may have some damage because of the strech in the film due to the sprockets. The house this film is in is running in bypass until we get our new processor. So I'm not sure about how it will sound. The bottom line is I will be the first to scream out the owner of my theater and several employees SUCK! I can't stand to be associated with them and I care to much for this theater. I like to see every showing run smooth. No mistakes, Nothing to worry about. Just check your projectors and have a pleasant time at work. I hate to go in and have to worry about everything in the place and feel lucky to get through the night without an event just because someone didn't do thier job the night before. Or just because the owner felt that a guy with a week of instruction was O.K. to run the place on his own. Common sense is all I ask of anyone in the booth.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-29-2005 03:50 AM                     Okey, here's another good one and I'm sure that some of you people have seen this before: Whoever broke down "Be Cool", wasn't paying attention to what cans that person grabbed, for two of the tail leads were from "Meet the Fokkers" when I put the print above together being I'm in a discount house (unless, the folks at TECH were snoozing a little bit..). -Monte  |  IP: Logged Kevin Orman Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Sompting, Lancing, UK Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-30-2005 06:41 AM                     The best and most bizarre situation happened to us with 'American Beauty'. I had to make up the print for a film club screening (with public) and had fairly limited time to do it. I remember that there was one part (part 4 I think) where the tail did not match the ID frame. As all other parts DID match I had to assume that there was just some film missing at the end of that part. Time being limited I had to go ahead even though I just had that 'feeling' that something wasn't right with the print. Sure enough about half-way through somebody from the audience came to tell me that they were in fact seeing the same part twice!!. It turns out that the second half of part four was completely missing and had been replaced by 'another' first part of part four. So ten minutes were repeated. I know what you are thinking, and I don't know which situation could have led to that either. What's worse is that I don't see how you could even tell that had been done unless you knew the film inside-out. I did wonder if the print had been deliberately sabotaged by somebody as a 'joke' as I could not think of any set of circumstances which would create this half-reel repeat situation.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-30-2005 07:38 AM                        Hey, you, at the Regal Metropolitan 14 in Austin, TX--you really, really suck. You managed to do the worst platter breakdown job that I have ever seen on a print of "Días de Santiago" (from the "Cine Las Americas" festival) that you sent to me yesterday. The reels were in the correct order, but you cut them at random points (which were usually within about 100' of the actual reel break). None of the ID frames matched. Fortunately, I had about an hour to fix this before my show last night. Oh, and you used masking tape to reattach the leaders and left a bunch of grease-pencil "cues done wrong" from another theatre in the print (which, fortunately, were easy to remove). Oh, and most of the reels were wound tails-out/emulsion-out and some of the soundtracks were flipped. Also, you at the Cable Car Cinema in Providence, RI--you suck, too, but not as much as the Regal. You broke down a print of "Buenos Aires 100 km" with "accordian splices" at the heads and tails of each reel, most leaders were reattached with soundtracks flipped, and a couple of leaders weren't taped down and came loose when the print was moved two blocks down the street to my venue.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Orman Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Sompting, Lancing, UK Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-30-2005 06:18 PM                     Scott what's an 'accordian splice'?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-30-2005 09:36 PM                        That's my made-up term for leaders which have several single frames individually spliced onto them. It is the result of lazy operators at platter or large-reel houses which chop off an additional reference frame rather than peeling the splicing tape when receiving a previously built-up print. The problem is obviously the loss of continuity, as the extra frames cannot be projected (it would look and sound horrible).  |  IP: Logged Dan Lyons Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 698 From: Seal Beach, CA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 05-01-2005 02:40 AM                     I don't know who you are yet, but as soon as I find out I'm going to edit the post! Whatever assholes had "Monty Python LIfe of Brian" print #5 from ICS, I hope your pants fall down and your genitals get caught in a sprocket! You guys threw this print, then cut it up into about 30 pieces, and randomly wound them back onto the shipping reels. I found sections from as many as three different reels wound onto one shipping reel. It took me over 5 hours to sort through all the sections and put the film back together. Sadly this print has to play tomorrow nite, the people at ICS are too lazy to pick up the phone on the weekend.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Orman Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Sompting, Lancing, UK Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-01-2005 08:51 AM                     Accordian splices. quote: Scott Norwood That's my made-up term for leaders which have several single frames individually spliced onto them. It is the result of lazy operators at platter or large-reel houses which chop off an additional reference frame rather than peeling the splicing tape when receiving a previously built-up print. I remember having this discussion about cutting extra ID frames on another forum. Many of my colleagues thinking it's okay. While it it almost always preferable to 'peel and save' a frame I suppose that on a first run mainstream print which may only ever reach two cinemas before being scrapped cutting an extra frame would have little effect. The problem is it's the small number of prints of more 'specialist' films that really suffer from continuity problems as you say. Still sometimes I am amazed at the ingnorance of some colleagues. recently a friend of mine who works at one the UK's leading arthouse screens said that he had deliberately removed or damaged extra footage from films in poor condition so that the distributors would HAVE to replace them!? I was astounded by this and explained that to him that all he would achieve was to cause the withdrawal of the print so that nobody would be able to screen it. He could not understand the econonomic argument as to why a distributor would not strike a new print of something whoch played just a few times a year!  |  IP: Logged Glen Rich Film Handler Posts: 55 From: Nedlands, Western Australia Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-02-2005 05:01 AM                     To cut or to peel the splicing tape off the leaders. Preferably it's take your time and peel the old tape away so as to keep continuity, but, and I know I'm not alone with this one, I've had prints turn up from the US and UK and interstate straight from the airport with only 40 minutes until 1st scheduled screening. I usually take 90 minutes to 2 plus hours to make a print up taking all care; but with these rolling stuff-ups speed is of the essence, so its check and cut leaders at speed onto 6000' spools then onto the plate. This practice had a painful outcome a few months ago with a print straight off the plane from the UK. Some raving dropkick had put a staple into a film break to hold it together,obviously whilst breaking it down, I found it the hard way, it ripped a large chunk of my left thumb away. Was very tempted to get on the next plane to London to find and thump the idiot.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-02-2005 11:50 PM                     quote: Kevin Orman an 'accordian splice'? ...Man! I used to see these all the time with second run prints back in the 80's when prints went from house to house to house. There would be at least a dozen of these splices hanging on the front and back of each reel. I used to do my best in cleaning up this mess with resplicing, but sometime it was of no use due to sloppy splicing techniques, so I had no choice to cut and do a new splice at times. =Monte  |  IP: Logged Rich Ferrando Film Handler Posts: 64 From: Royal Oak, MI Registered: Nov 2003 posted 05-06-2005 11:24 PM                       quote: Kevin Orman Sure enough about half-way through somebody from the audience came to tell me that they were in fact seeing the same part twice!!. It turns out that the second half of part four was completely missing and had been replaced by 'another' first part of part four. So ten minutes were repeated. We actually had a problem like that with a print of "The Hills Have Eyes," but the strange thing was... it was a brand new print! It was the LAB that actually PRINTED the same 4-minute scene into the print (no tape splices anywhere near it.)  |  IP: Logged

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