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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray? (Page 61)

 
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Author Topic: Anyone consuming HD or Blu-ray?
Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 02-15-2008 10:01 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby let make clear what I was saying. Unlike VHS vs Beta the resolutions of the picture is the same VHS had less resolution by a lot than Beta. I haven't researched the rest the way you guys have. I have looked at side by side comparison and the time I watched them they weren't noticeably different to the eye; however, they were not on identical TV's and HD could have been on a superior TV which could have leveled the viewing field.

I take all you are saying on the what the disk is capable of as true but the question didn't seem to be asking about which system was over all superior but which picture was superior the delivered pictures are to the same HD spec's.

I have accepted that Blu-rey have a superior system and didn't mean to imply that HD was equal to them. Though from what I have seen the HD menu's are better looking in HD system. That will change soon as well I supsect.

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Brad Allen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: May 2000

- posted 02-15-2008 11:11 PM      Profile for Brad Allen   Email Brad Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, this isn't in a place known for tech, but I watched a Sony blu-ray player running Pirates #121, hooked to a 1080P Sony LCD in Sams last week, and I must say I was not impressed. Pixilated galore in action scenes. Was hooked to Tv via HDMI. [Eek!]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 02-15-2008 11:23 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never heard of the movie "Pirates #121", but there are several possibilities here:

1 - The people who hooked up and ran this demo are retards who have no business whatsoever being alive.

2 - Pirates #121 is a really blocky movie.

3 - Your own optical vision is pixelated.

4 - It was all a dream.

5 - Government conspiracy.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

- posted 02-16-2008 10:24 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ron Funderburg
the question didn't seem to be asking about which system was over all superior but which picture was superior
quote: Tim Reed
So, which format was better? HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?
[Confused]

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 02-16-2008 12:27 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark yes I should have said I was only talking about the technical specifications of the pictures. I have to admit I read to many of the post between the question and my answer to actually remember the question properly! [Smile]

What Pirate movie is #121?

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 02-16-2008 12:49 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby wrote, "Blu-Ray can [...] store the movies natively in 24fps."

Are you saying you think HD-DVD (and even regular old DVD) can't do that? My understanding is that all of these container formats (Blu Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, and ATSC) allow you to transmit a 24fps video stream, though in some cases the metadata may instruct the player to do a 3:2 pulldown to interlace them (for compatibility with NTSC output devices, or whatever). But progressive players are free to ignore that directive to execute the pulldown, and generally do ignore it when they are configured to output to a progressive display device.

--jhawk

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-16-2008 01:37 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Allen
Ok, this isn't in a place known for tech, but I watched a Sony blu-ray player running Pirates #121, hooked to a 1080P Sony LCD in Sams last week, and I must say I was not impressed. Pixilated galore in action scenes. Was hooked to Tv via HDMI.
Sam's Club is hardly the store to visit to see HDTV demo-ed correctly (much less go to buy really good HD-related products). There's all sorts of variables that could be screwing up the image quality. The BD player could be sending out the signal in 480p or 720p instead of 1080p. Employees may have used a cheap/old HDMI 1.0 cable that bottle-necked the digital signal. The TV itself may have not been set up properly.

With the right HDMI cabling and proper general settings, 1080p content from Blu-ray Disc should look great on any HDTV with native 1080p resolution. There should be no pixelation or blocking or any of that nonsense.

In general, most mainstream retail stores don't know how to set up HD movie players and HDTVs correctly. That puts even more importance on doing your own product research rather than buying based on how something looks on the floor.

quote: John Hawkinson
Are you saying you think HD-DVD (and even regular old DVD) can't do that?
My understanding is HD-DVD has to do a bit of signal deconstruction/reconstruction via 3:2 pulldown to give a HDTV a 24fps signal. Blu-ray doesn't have to do any of that.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 02-16-2008 01:46 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby I'm on way over to OKC right now to look at a few BluRey players and make the selection we probable will not buy till next week sometime since I the item I'm selling will not have the money from until Monday.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-16-2008 02:38 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More news today:

Toshiba halts HD-DVD production

quote:
Toshiba Halts HD DVD Production, Mulls Future

Martyn Williams, IDG News Service 1 hour, 52 minutes ago

Toshiba has halted production of HD DVD players and recorders and is close to making a decision on whether to throw in the towel on the high-definition movie disc format, Japanese public broadcaster NHK reported Saturday evening.

The decision, which NHK said will likely cost the company several tens of billions of dollars, is being made in the face of flagging support by movie studios and major U.S. retailers.

"We are making considerations following the impact on sales of Warner's announcement but we haven't made any decision," said Keisuke Ohmori, a spokesman for Toshiba, when reached on Saturday evening. He was referring to the January decision by Warner Bros to stop issuing movies on HD DVD and go solely with Blu-ray Disc.

Other local media reports on Saturday said an official announcement from Toshiba is likely in the coming week.

HD DVD has been battling Blu-ray Disc for just under two years to become the defacto replacement for DVD for high-definition video. HD DVD is backed by Toshiba and a handful of other companies including Microsoft and Intel but Blu-ray Disc counted a larger number of consumer electronics heavy hitters. The main backer of the format is Sony and other supporters include Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung, LG and Philips.

Both formats delivered a similar audio and video quality and the main difference comes down to the movies available on each format. Most movie studios have taken one side or the other so consumers are left with a difficult decision. As a result many have walked away from stores with neither an HD DVD or Blu-ray Disc player and the market has performed poorly.

The Warner Bros decision in January has been seen by many as the beginning of the end for HD DVD. With Warner pulling out HD DVD only two of the major Hollywood studios, Paramount and Universal, are left backing the format.

In the weeks since the Warner announcement things have gotten worse for HD DVD. In the last week Netflix, an Internet-based movie rental company in the U.S., said it would cease supporting HD DVD and then on Friday Wal-Mart, the largest retailer in the U.S., said it would stop selling HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray Disc.
I guess this should do more to push Universal Pictures and Paramount/Dreamworks into making some sort of announcement regarding their movies and plans for release on Blu-ray Disc.

quote: Ron Funderburg
Bobby I'm on way over to OKC right now to look at a few BluRey players and make the selection we probable will not buy till next week sometime since I the item I'm selling will not have the money from until Monday.
Just a couple of quick recommendations:

Panasonic DMP-BD30 = 1st standalone BD Profile 1.1 compatible player
Playstation 3

The 80GB version gives you PS2 compatibility, SACD playback, four USB 2.0 ports, three flash memory card slots.

The 40GB version costs $100 less, has 2 USB 2.0 ports, no flash slots, no SACD.

Overall, just be sure to do some research about the current selection of available players. Many have unequal levels of capability and upgrade-ability.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 02-16-2008 05:49 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DVD can store 24fps native material (I do it all the time and most movies are stored this way), but it cannot output raw 24p. The player MUST do pulldown so that it outputs 60fps, even for progressive displays. With interlaced displays it obviously goes the extra step and interlaces the picture, but you are still seeing the 3:2 effect even in 480p. 3:2 pulldown really has nothing to do with interlacing. On material that is poorly authored (which most movies tend to be) you can see quick interlacing artifacts (combing effects) on progressive displays at some scene changes (usually only once or twice during the movie, depending on how well it was encoded). My 24fps material never does this because I am awesome. But if the player cannot handle poorly authored/encoded material, you'll see it on most movies.

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 02-16-2008 07:16 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Today I was in Best Buy, and they had a BD of PIRATES playing on a 120Hz Sony TV. If I hadn't known better, I would have thought for sure it was shot on video. It had this weird quality to it that resembles the effect created by video shot without a shutter. Is this that "motion flow" thing? It looked good. It just didn't seem true to the source material.

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Ron Funderburg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 814
From: Chickasha, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2007

- posted 02-16-2008 07:42 PM      Profile for Ron Funderburg   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Funderburg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby, Joe, there is precious little information about the players actually listed on the box! The sales people are seemingly totally devoid of actual knowledge in either the equipment or HD in general.

There is a Sony player 300 (forgot the numbers in front of the 300) but about all they really say on the box is up to 1080p. So I will do some more reading before I make the purchase. I'm leaning on the 80 gig PS3 at this time.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 02-16-2008 07:49 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think any flat-panel TVs look "film-like" the way CRTs can. Better get used to it I guess. [Shrug]

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 02-16-2008 07:51 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ron,

I bought the first Blu-ray player to hit the market, and while I don't regret it, it's essentially not usable anymore because of compatability issues (even with a constant stream of firmware updates). My roommate bought a PS3 which has worked perfectly well. If I had to buy one now, it'd be the PS3, because there are so many of those out there that you know Sony has to stay on top of things when it comes to updates. Just a suggestion...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 02-16-2008 08:30 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Schindler's List
Today I was in Best Buy, and they had a BD of PIRATES playing on a 120Hz Sony TV. If I hadn't known better, I would have thought for sure it was shot on video.
Yes, we have discussed that many times in this thread already. That is the motion flow thingy and it interpolates new "in between frames" that were never there in the first place making it look like 60fps or higher video. When the action gets fast, the motion gets jerky since there is too much difference between the real frames to interpolate new ones. Always leave motion flow off. However you can still watch in true 24fps on these sets and it will look awesome. I imagine we'll be explaining this again and again as it seems people don't read the posts that explain what is going on.

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